to think that it's completely bonkers to want a large family?

[slightlystunned]

I read a recent thread where a mom is contemplating having a 4th child and the responses were largely (and cautiously) supportive.

If she had asked the same question to someone from my country, she would have been considered a freak.

I come from a country that is struggling with over-population and poverty and a large % of crime and thus a lot of orphans / abandoned children. I am also enough of an environmental nut to realise that 2+ children or 4+ humans per household means more consumption of natural and artificial resources.

And, face it, in the western culture the child leaves home at 18. The rude behavior and ingratitude and f&ck off attitude starts well before that, around 13, 14 years? So I genuinely don't understand why one would sacrifice their best years & money for that relatively short period of time (13+years), to bring up 3+ children, who may or may not stay together, or keep in touch with you, or worse, hurt you. I have lived extensively in US and Europe, and ALL the families I know see their children only during holidays, about once a year. In fact, one of my British-born, Caucasian friends is in deep emotional and financial crisis and none of her 5 siblings have time to spend with her, they are all well off and can help her, but they politely looking the other way while she a single mom is struggling with a day job.

This is not just a one-time observation, even the people in my acquaintances who have good relationship with their siblings or parents do not help out, saying that "I can't be involved, I have my own life to lead". So if large families do not teach other to help each other, what else is the purpose?

In my grandmother's generation, it was common to have 6 or 8 or even 10 children every household. More children was sign of ""manliness" and ""fertility"

In my mother's generation, 2 and 3 were common. 4 was considered slightly overdose.

In my generation, just one or at the most, 2 seems to be enough. And the trend right now in my country is to have one ""womb" child and one "heart" child (adopted). Which is fairly a good idea, considering the number of orphans and destitute children in the world.

So my two questions are: 1. is this what it is in the West - a trend, a statement to say that "I am a domestic goddess" and have a large family? Do people actually realise the social, financial and emotional consequences of having a large family in today's world?

1. If there is any other valid reason, why this craze to have children from own "blood"? If a person is lucky enough to have financial security and the means to raise another child, why not share it with a child from "outside" who is not so fortunate?

I don't wish to hurt any one, I have been plagued by these questions for many years. I just want some perspective. I am not married, nor do I have children.

Have you "lived extensively in Europe" or is this the "first time you've lived in Europe"? You can't have done both

Well ignore the violence, stop being obtuse and answer the questions
Please :)

Whilst I disagree with the OP's original post, I think that many responses have been harsh beyond the pale . Gawd blimey, people reign yourselves in a bit! The OP is not responsible for the 1.2 billion people that populate her homeland. She is also not responsible for the poverty many of those people suffer. Certainly no more than we are.

'I once, after a sports class, told a friend that she smelled badly. Immediately she retorted, oh yeah, so do you, in fact you smell even more badly. And she slapped me for telling her that she smelled! It was as if she hit me hard enough, the fact that she smelled would be forgotten.'

You're blaming the response you're getting on it just being a case of shooting the messenger.

You haven't told us anything we don't know about Britain, we know these things must exist somewhere with some people, but you've come out with blanket judgements of a whole country, meaning that if you live here you must be like that.

Nobody likes people saying things like that about the place they live in, especially when there are so many great things about living here.

Funny you never leave high school, eh?

Well clearly you haven't if the only way you can think to amuse yourself on a bank holiday weekend is to start bigoted threads.

Welcome to MN though....yawwwn.

larks whilst I accept some responses have been harsh, I feel my questions are pertinent to her op and she hasnt answered.
And as for the near-autistic comment ....

AgentZigZag

I'm trying not to be picky OP, and what you make of what's behind female infanticide is interesting,
-----
It's not what I make of. It's just the facts. I am giving you the true situation. You can ask anybody from India. Google or search on FB for some Indian journalists, and you can ask them, they would reply what I have told you.

but blaming the western media for 'blowing it out of proportion' suggests you think it shouldn't be reported to a wider world audience.

No I never suggested it. I only say that news from afar tends to be sensationalized. There was once a fire a few months (year?) ago in London, if I am not mistaken. It was raging on for 3 or 4 days, right? Well, the media in India showed it non-stop for those days, and suddenly everyone in my city was talking about how London was burning and how people lost all their homes and possessions. In fact there is a large % of families in my city where at least one son or daughter is studying/living in London, and ALL of them called their kids and asked me them to come home - all based on a media clip that played over and over.

They're not sensationalizing the issue, people pick up on it because it's such a shocking thing to happen for the reasons you've stated.

This is what I have said too. That by the very atrocious nature of the crime, people are very affected by it.

What you're really saying is that we only think it's outrageous because we're told to by the media.

No I don't say that. I have used the words crime, ignorant, atrocious in my post, while describing the act. It means that I too think that it is a repulsive crime.

I don't mean to be picky either, but I think that people expect me to be apologetic for the fact that a crime happens in my country. That's not gonna happen! Then all of us will be in an eternal state of apology.

Blackberryice

I did not know that threads about threads were against the rules. I did not mean to post anything against the rules here.

Can I ask if responses like ""fuckity fuck off" "Glad nobody has reproduced with you" et al are within the rules?

From what I see, it's open season here.

You're right larks, the OPs not responsible for the way every other person acts in her own country, but she's decided to tar everyone in Britain with the same brush as though we were responsible for social policy and when other people decide to have children.

Haven't read the thread but I have eight DC, no idea why. I'm often asked.

I like it and the DC like it too (most of the time), so yeah....

Perhaps I should have plagued myself with questions first, but it isn't really my style.

I meant, the first time I lived in the UK (not Europe)

I spent a total of 6 years studying in US and Italy. Somehow I never got culture shock there....

I don't expect you to apologise for your country's behaviour towards female children. I think that you should review things in your own backyard though before you start casting aspersions on everybody else's decisions.

That "fire" may have been the riots in London, and yes they were bloody scary and people did lose belongings and homes.

Do I come across as bigoted / prejudiced / arrogant?

Are there anybody here who is not those things?

I am not afraid to show that I am flawed. You cannot learn anything if you are too scared to show that you are flawed.

If I AM bigoted / prejudiced / arrogant, then what better way to change myself than by hearing from you all how and why I am so wrong?

Do keep the comments coming :)

Quick q: just how many "heart" children are being adopted from lower castes, the grindingest poorest of the grinding poor?

Whilst I worked in India, no one except me even looked at the nice, polite man that serviced the coffee machine. I was warned by management that it didn't look good that I did speak to him.

So let's have a bet how many of this guys kids, a man who actually had a job, would be adopted? And then let's think of the kids with no clothes living under filthy blue tarpaulin shacks by the side of open fly blown sewers.

So to answer you OP, YANBU to raise your initial question. But every other word you type is beyond trite.

So teenagers in the us and Italy are well behaved?
Italian and American families all see each other often
And have small families.
In a catholic country?
And the Duggans?

Did you think any of this through at all?

enjoy the op doesn't appear to know anything about adoption in her country.
So don't hold your breath

I am going to need more coffee.

I don't expect you to be apologetic at all OP, I just don't like the way you keep turning everything round into a problem with 'the west'/'1st world' countries.

And I don't believe for a minute that anyone anywhere has a totally objective handle on female infanticide. Googling the topic just shows how difficult it is to get facts when you're talking about peoples feelings.

Overall though, do you like living here?

What kinds of things have you noticed that you can't believe we do? (apart from raising hellish teenagers (which I definitely believe is an innate, universal teenage behaviour, even in India) in unsupportive families )

Ha ha mrsDV......carefully now, you are in danger of making the op look a bit thick and stupid now.... The Duggars and Kate and Jon, don't forget them!

Do I come across as bigoted / prejudiced / arrogant?

Yes

HTH

Yes, the riots. I was in India at that time. I am sure it was a horrendous time, I am not trivializing it at all. As soon as I saw the footage (which was very scary, and I was scheduled to go to college there soon!), I called a relative who lived in Southall. Her reply? "Oh it's all concentrated in North London, we are perfectly okay here".

But in India, it was as if the whole city of London was burning, like some war-ravaged battlefield, and people fleeing to safety..

Anyway, I guess you are really not interested in understanding what I am trying to say, so why am I bothering to explain!

Agent what's hellish shmellish teens vs. children in hideous poverty, female circumcision, acid attacks on women, honour killings. Forgive me if I'm sounding facetious. India is the one country that I have visited thus far in my life that makes me feel so very, very angry.

OP you've achieved the impossible and actually enabled the Internet to piss me right off.

"So teenagers in the us and Italy are well behaved?
Italian and American families all see each other often
And have small families.
In a catholic country?
And the Duggans?"

ODAMDV, which thread are you reading? WHERE have I said all that? I only said I did not have that much culture shock there.

I can only be responsible for what I say, not what you presume.