to think that it's completely bonkers to want a large family?

[slightlystunned]

I read a recent thread where a mom is contemplating having a 4th child and the responses were largely (and cautiously) supportive.

If she had asked the same question to someone from my country, she would have been considered a freak.

I come from a country that is struggling with over-population and poverty and a large % of crime and thus a lot of orphans / abandoned children. I am also enough of an environmental nut to realise that 2+ children or 4+ humans per household means more consumption of natural and artificial resources.

And, face it, in the western culture the child leaves home at 18. The rude behavior and ingratitude and f&ck off attitude starts well before that, around 13, 14 years? So I genuinely don't understand why one would sacrifice their best years & money for that relatively short period of time (13+years), to bring up 3+ children, who may or may not stay together, or keep in touch with you, or worse, hurt you. I have lived extensively in US and Europe, and ALL the families I know see their children only during holidays, about once a year. In fact, one of my British-born, Caucasian friends is in deep emotional and financial crisis and none of her 5 siblings have time to spend with her, they are all well off and can help her, but they politely looking the other way while she a single mom is struggling with a day job.

This is not just a one-time observation, even the people in my acquaintances who have good relationship with their siblings or parents do not help out, saying that "I can't be involved, I have my own life to lead". So if large families do not teach other to help each other, what else is the purpose?

In my grandmother's generation, it was common to have 6 or 8 or even 10 children every household. More children was sign of ""manliness" and ""fertility"

In my mother's generation, 2 and 3 were common. 4 was considered slightly overdose.

In my generation, just one or at the most, 2 seems to be enough. And the trend right now in my country is to have one ""womb" child and one "heart" child (adopted). Which is fairly a good idea, considering the number of orphans and destitute children in the world.

So my two questions are: 1. is this what it is in the West - a trend, a statement to say that "I am a domestic goddess" and have a large family? Do people actually realise the social, financial and emotional consequences of having a large family in today's world?

1. If there is any other valid reason, why this craze to have children from own "blood"? If a person is lucky enough to have financial security and the means to raise another child, why not share it with a child from "outside" who is not so fortunate?

I don't wish to hurt any one, I have been plagued by these questions for many years. I just want some perspective. I am not married, nor do I have children.

'Are there anybody here who is not those things?'

There must be people on here who are those things OP, and you do occasionally see it coming out in a post/thread, but it's not acceptable to state those views as fact on a public internet forum, especially if you're expecting them to go unchallenged.

Nobody can tell you what to privately think, but if you do think those things, keep them to yourself, unless it doesn't bother you that you might come across as offensive.

I'm not meaning this in a shitty way, but when you were writing the OP, what kinds of things did you imagine posters would decide to say?

Because it looks to me like you were either hoping people would bite take offence and give you lots of attention give you a run for your money, or you thought it'd just be one big Blighty slagfest with everyone agreeing with you.

"children in hideous poverty, female circumcision, acid attacks on women, honour killings"

so, just because all these exist in my own country, I better shut my mouth before I dare to say something about "hellish shmellish teens"? Is that what you all are trying to say?

'I can only be responsible for what I say, not what you presume. '

It can be helpful on MN if you put a after ironic statements.

Just so's we know where we are like.

Nope. But there are bigger things to be concerned about. And India is a country with a shit load lot of big concerns.

That's not to say the UK isn't, but hell I didn't start the thread.

I have a large family.
I've just spent the past 20 minutes writing a post except then I deleted it as I realised I don't have to justify my self or my family to anybody especially some anonymous person on an internet forum who hardly comes from Utopia!

High fives liferocks damn straight!

But then I'm guessing it wasn't your toddler sitting naked at the roadside in Hyderabad eating road kill.

Good luck in your adoption process OP.

Agentzigzag, thanks for being civil. So far I like living in the UK. Better than New Jersey definitely. Italy is a tall order to surpass :)

Also thanks for your advice about posting etiquette.

It will be equally helpful of some nice advice can be doled out to people who act like homicidal a$$holes in a public forum - no emoticon here, I mean this seriously.

It is becoming very clear that posting on MN needs special skills. Otherwise something akin to beating up a person (whose only crime was to enter an orange shop and ask why they are selling rotten apples) will happen :)

And yes, nobody should waste their weekend trying to field stupid or abusive or plain vile comments.

Have a great week, everyone.

You don't need particularly specialist skills to post on MN.

But you can't expect to slag off an entire country, on a site where the majority of posters come from the country being slagged off, and not get a stiff response.

'Also thanks for your advice about posting etiquette.'

You might be thankful for it, but you're not taking the advice on board are you??

Zigzag, I love you

What a thread full of oddness!

I would love a large family.I love children and would love to adopt but its very hard in this country.

I dont think I am 'giving up' the best years for our children, its what I live for.I have no ambitions to travel or do anything else personally. I see my mum and dad every day and speak to my mum on yhe phone about 3 times on top of that! We are constantly in contact we do argue sometimes but I think its because we are constantly in contact.I am best friends with my brother and he comes round every 2 days and we text and facebook everyday.I have been with my dh since we were both in our teens.Family is everything imo. I moved away from my family for 3 years and I left a well paying job for minimum wage cause I cant be without my parents.

I dont recognise your description of uk families tbh.Here everyone has grandparents in same town.

I'm confused. When I first saw this thread I thought that I'd spotted a troll. My first one! But as the thread is still going does that mean we think the op is for real or are we responding to the op despite them being a troll?

If you are real op you're pretty unpleasant.

People have small perfect families.

I wonder how many brothers and sisters the OP has?

my first ever. It's a proud moment.

you sound like a twat

Op, as the mother of teenagers, I don't recognise your description at all - my dc and their friends are amazing, fun human beings. Neither do I recognise your description of family life in the West - you have a blinkered and, frankly, very offensive view which I hope you don't espouse in public.

I suggest you widen your studies to try to develop emotional intelligence as otherwise you will always wonder why people avoid you and would not want to employ you.

Hope that helps.

Andsuetoo, I think you were right. Too much very colloquial English being used by op I think.. Another

If someone had written a post purely to criticise the whole point of childbearing in another country they would, quite rightly, have been given the flaming of their lives.

Admitting to being bigoted and arrogant isn't the same as admitting to being "flawed". Being able to admit to your flaws implies that you know you are wrong and that you are working on changing. Admitting to being bigotted and arrogant while banging on and making snidey comments to anyone who disagrees with you makes it quite clear that you think you are right and don't care if that makes you appear like a bigot or an arrogant twat.

It's not disarming honesty. It's unattractive intransigence and narrow-mindedness.

Everyone is different. If we were all the same it would be boring. But please respect that what isn't right for you, it is someone else's dream and life.

Fwiw Dh didn't leave home until he was 27. So not everyone leaves home at 18.

The OP has clearly rubbed people up the wrong way which is a shame because her original questions, which were perfectly valid IMO, have been lost in the squabbles somewhat. Like her, I also wondered why some people have large families considering the emotional and financial expenses involved, and the social and environmental issues with a growing population.

Thankfully CailinDana summmed it up really well I think; humans are not rational and make many decisions which could be construed as wrong. When it comes to reproducing, a broody woman/man/couple is unlikely to think about overpopulation, the potential food crisis, housing problems, education, and job shortages. They want kids, their hormones overrule and that's it. I can see why this happens; after all we are just animals and our main reason to exist is to reproduce the species, so in a way people like me who missed out on the broody gene and don't find children at all appealing (so are childless and happy about it), are the wrong'uns according to Mother Nature, LOL.

As the op has only been in the UK for 4 months perhaps this is more an instance of first impressions influenced by the group of acquaintances (limited view) she finds herself with and news reports (which can be extreme or exaggerated).
If so, no matter how odd the questions asked it might be may a genuine query to try to understand and with more information revise the original point of view.

If what she sees in her social group is what she describes then that could contribute to her being puzzled by people wanting large families.

Op has given her opinions on the downsides of having children and was possibly looking for an alternative perspective and is seemingly surprised that people would choose to have a larger family.

That's my take on the op anyway:)