to think that it's completely bonkers to want a large family?

[slightlystunned]

I read a recent thread where a mom is contemplating having a 4th child and the responses were largely (and cautiously) supportive.

If she had asked the same question to someone from my country, she would have been considered a freak.

I come from a country that is struggling with over-population and poverty and a large % of crime and thus a lot of orphans / abandoned children. I am also enough of an environmental nut to realise that 2+ children or 4+ humans per household means more consumption of natural and artificial resources.

And, face it, in the western culture the child leaves home at 18. The rude behavior and ingratitude and f&ck off attitude starts well before that, around 13, 14 years? So I genuinely don't understand why one would sacrifice their best years & money for that relatively short period of time (13+years), to bring up 3+ children, who may or may not stay together, or keep in touch with you, or worse, hurt you. I have lived extensively in US and Europe, and ALL the families I know see their children only during holidays, about once a year. In fact, one of my British-born, Caucasian friends is in deep emotional and financial crisis and none of her 5 siblings have time to spend with her, they are all well off and can help her, but they politely looking the other way while she a single mom is struggling with a day job.

This is not just a one-time observation, even the people in my acquaintances who have good relationship with their siblings or parents do not help out, saying that "I can't be involved, I have my own life to lead". So if large families do not teach other to help each other, what else is the purpose?

In my grandmother's generation, it was common to have 6 or 8 or even 10 children every household. More children was sign of ""manliness" and ""fertility"

In my mother's generation, 2 and 3 were common. 4 was considered slightly overdose.

In my generation, just one or at the most, 2 seems to be enough. And the trend right now in my country is to have one ""womb" child and one "heart" child (adopted). Which is fairly a good idea, considering the number of orphans and destitute children in the world.

So my two questions are: 1. is this what it is in the West - a trend, a statement to say that "I am a domestic goddess" and have a large family? Do people actually realise the social, financial and emotional consequences of having a large family in today's world?

1. If there is any other valid reason, why this craze to have children from own "blood"? If a person is lucky enough to have financial security and the means to raise another child, why not share it with a child from "outside" who is not so fortunate?

I don't wish to hurt any one, I have been plagued by these questions for many years. I just want some perspective. I am not married, nor do I have children.

'Personally I am terrified of having a large family.'

Contraception

What a nasty op!

Where are you from? It doesn't sound like anywhere I can think of.

Where I live there is an under population problem so encouraging women to have 4 dcs would be a good thing. Have you seen germany/Japan's population pyramid lately? If you think we're in an economic crisis now wait til that hits! Or at the end of the century when it happens to china. Depopulation is by definition the biggest threat to humanity.

People in this country can be very selfish and if they want something and can have it, then they will. That includes children.

People have large families because they want to and there is nothing stopping them. They don't have to worry financially as they know the state will provide at least the basics for them.

I don't see a problem at all with people having big families as long as they can afford them on their own private income without claiming benefits, and they have a good degree of financial security. What the children do with their lives when they grow up has to be up to them.

"People have large families because they want to and there is nothing stopping them. They don't have to worry financially as they know the state will provide at least the basics for them."

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos, THANK YOU. I needed to hear that.

In India, a surefire way to become a beggar - literally - is to have a large family. There is absolutely no help from the government, no aid, no benefits nothing. I have personally seen people go bankrupt trying to educate their large family.

I think I approached the situation in UK with the same mindset. My bad, trying to draw parallels between 1st world and a 3rd world country.

'My bad, trying to draw parallels between 1st world and a 3rd world country.'

My bad?? hahahaha

Love the subtle as a brick introduction of the 1st/3rd world debate.

Ahh right India.

Are the majority of 'heart babies' female?

See in the UK, kids in care are generally troubled children or teens and there is a distinct lack of babies to heart....

For some strange reason there seems to be a general belief that humans are rational beings who make measured, considered choices in all areas of their life. There is absolutely no evidence for that belief. Humans eat and drink things that are bad for their bodies, they go out with people who are abusive, off limits, emotionally unavailable, lazy, and generally not good for them, they take drugs, they drive too fast, they stay too long out in the sun etc etc. In short, they are aware of the risks of their actions but they still engage in those actions. Unless you've only ever done things in your life that we entirely rational and 100% beneficial to mankind then you are in no position to criticise.

Of all things, the decision to have children is not a rational one. Rationally children are a drain on you financially, physically and emotionally yet the desire to have them, for many people, is so strong they can't resist it. Even people who know full well that they don't have the emotional or financial stability to have children go ahead and have them anyway. Because they desire them, in a visceral, non-rational way. Maybe one day you'll experience that OP, and you'll realise what wanting and loving a child really means.

Beamur and others, I am glad to hear that not all teens are like the ones I have encountered. There is a school bus stop on the way to my home and you should see some of the kids... their attitude, the way they look at you and talk to you. And some of their behaviour.... positively shocking to this woman from a sexually conservative (or rather, unnaturally suppressed) country...

I realise that I am speaking more from culture shock than anything else (this is the first time I am living in Europe)... but really, 13 year old kids shoving their fingers down each others pants in public is something that's not done anywhere in the world. Perhaps this happens only in big cities?

222 countries listed as nations.

India comes in at 80th on births per female. Only 2.56 babies per female.

I do not believe the well educated and monied minority of Indians only have one baby per family, then trot off to the orphanage to get a heart (adopted) baby.

I've no idea how our kids behave once away from parental eyes...but at home they are kind and thoughtful and respectful.

CilinDana - good post.

I like the word sick and sickening today. Time for bed.

I will stick to the womb child heart child issue
Adoption is not a simple alternative to giving birth
There are not thousands of babies waiting to be adopted

Is it common in your country to have a womb child and then adopt a 7 year old heart child?

Or are the heart children all babies?

And if lots of people are adopting these unwanted babies someone is having them. I doubt they are being given up because the birth mother wants to provide someone with a baby. Surely it is because she has too many to provide for. Is this down to lack of contraception, poverty? What?

I have 5 children (one adopted) so I suppose that means I have caused terrible danger to the Eco system. Mind you I have never flown long haul...

I'm sickened by the caste system in India, by the way that unborn female babies are aborted purely for being female, by the way girls are murdered for dishonouring their families.

Cailindana, thank you for your perspective. I always understand logic better than swear words!

I just turned 30. By all means, the clock should have started ticking by now. It hasn't. I am one of those near-autistic people who never takes a decision without considering future implications. No wonder I never got this ""I want more children" desire till you explained it that way.

Before anybody assassinates me for using the word Autism, I have the tests to prove that I can say that without meaning any disrespect :)

Op...what are your thoughts on the surrogacy industry in your country?

well we have 5, we always wanted four and no 5 was a bit of a bonus and is a delight. my children are well mannered and polite, even my teen! they have their moments as all children do but on the whole they are great.

dp and i like the hustle and bustle of a large family and on the whole our 5 get on great with each other.

we also see grandparents about once a month and aunts/uncles slightly less but that is because of distance.

my dp works and we support ourselves, get child benefit.

each to their own isnt it, my sister only has one and may have one more, but she is happy with that and so i am happy for her.

a large family isnt for everyone but i dont judge those with just one or two, so why do you need to judge me? i love children and am lucky enough that i got preg easily and had good births and fabulous healthy children, they drive me mad occasionally but i wouldnt be without them.

i also donated eggs to help another couple have a child, they are having twins! i think that is fabulous :) and that is another issue, some may only want one or two but a subsequent pregnancy may result in twins or triplets etc, you dont get to choose in that circumstance.

the uk may not be perfect but at least we dont routinely abort girl babies.

India??

All the people I know in THIS country who have come here from INDIA have huge families!!

Hows that

What does near autistic mean?

There are actual tests that show you can say something without it being offensive?

Namechangegalore, If I thought India was a better country, why am I studying and living in UK!

For the record, anybody who thinks that a country ruled by a corrupt government which does not nothing to make the poor less poor is better than a country which at least has a benefits scheme for all its citizens is a fool. I am no fool.

I don't remember mentioning female infanticide at all in my OP.

I have an unusually thick skin, so you all can have a go at me. I only care about the comments from those who can actually articulate what they want to say.

You should try posting this on netmums, they care over there..

I want to say

Do your friends only adopt heart babies or do they adopt older heart children?
What does near autistic mean
Where do the heart babies come from?