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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To insist on abstinence until DH has a vasectomy?

473 replies

Peachesinthesummertime · 26/08/2012 18:57

We have 3 DCs, youngest is 2 months old, so frankly abstinence is quite easy to insist on at the moment but I assume that will change at some point in the future.

In the past I've used the pill for contraception but no longer want to because of increased breast cancer risk and my family history. I've also used condoms a lot in the past but no longer want to rely on this as the sole method of contraception. I've experienced several incidents in the past of condoms splitting and I really, really don't want any more kids / to take any risks. (DC3 was unplanned...)

DH insists (and has always insisted) that he will not have a vasectomy under any circumstances. He won't really discuss this at all so he hasn't given any reasons for this, just a total flat refusal.

I feel really hacked off about this. I've been through the mill physically and emotionally with 3 pregnancies in 5 years. I don't want my body to be the one that has to suffer for contraception. I don't want to have implants or chemicals or the coil (I heard it can cause heavier periods). I'm fed up with my body being the one to suffer all the time. Why can DH not make the sacrifice for once? I know a vasectomy is not fun but surely it's a walk in the park compared to the discomfort and pain of pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding?

So we're at a standstill. He won't change his mind. Neither will I. Any suggestions on how to resolve?

OP posts:
Inertia · 26/08/2012 22:28

Onemorechap- I was quoting the comments about abstinence / withholding sex being emotionally abusive/ manipulative / controlling from other posts further upthread; they weren't my arguments, and I should have made it more clear that I was quoting other posts and disagreeing with their sentiment.

BalloonSlayer · 26/08/2012 22:28

What couthy says.

< stands up and applauds >

BoneyBackJefferson · 26/08/2012 22:32

saying that you will never be able to do something again unless you do X,y or z is a tatic to put pressure on someone.

It is in just about every EA definition that I have ever seen.

It doesn't mean that the DH has any right to expect sex.

CaptainVonTrapp · 26/08/2012 22:33

CouthyMow is absolutely right.

There is a lot of sympathy on here for the husband and his fear of vasectomy (even though he hasn't bothered to explain why he doesn't want one). Much less sympathy for the OP's fear of unwanted pregnancy (of which she's already had one).

As for the OP being a 'nasty woman' MrMiyagi why is that? For being terrified of having a fourth pregnancy? Or for daring to decline sex?

NarkedRaspberry · 26/08/2012 22:34

'if you're thinking of forcing your DH into celibacy forever unless he agrees to invasive surgery then he just might re-evaluate things'

So she is pressuring him? Because she doesn't want to get pregnant? But it's fine for him to pressure her into risking pregnancy because he's too selfish to take any responsibility for contraception?

'he said "oh well, if a condom splits, you can just take the morning after pill."

Inertia · 26/08/2012 22:35

The OP does not want to engage in sex which could lead to pregnancy. That doesn't make her EA or manipulative, it means that she is taking control of her fertility in the manner that's most appropriate for her own health.

The OP and her DH could work out what else they could do that doesn't carry a pregnancy risk. It's not binary- it's not a case of full sex being non-negotiable so either he has a vasectomy or, she has a sterilisation or pregnancy.

Inertia · 26/08/2012 22:38

Couthy is absolutely right. Very well put.

OneMoreChap · 26/08/2012 22:39

CouthyMow Sun 26-Aug-12 22:26:39
If my partner expected to 'use' my body for penetrative sex when I wasn't turned on, I would class that as rape.

Sure.
Could you be turned on and have non PIV sex?

And while I am scared of unwanted pregnancy, I am unable to get turned on. Simple as.

Even if there's no penetration. Sad That's not much fun for you.

If my partner then went elsewhere for sex whilst still in a relationship with me, due to me not having sex with him, that would be CHEATING.

I think you'd find it was cheating even if you were having sex with him.

If he wants to go elsewhere for sex, I would expect him to end our relationship first.

That's reasonable.

I would be prepared to go to counselling with my partner if they were unhappy with me abstaining, to explain to them that to me, having sex when I am not turned on is NOT something I would ever consent to, and I would see it as rape. I cannot be turned on whilst fearing pregnancy, therefore his expectation of sex would mean, to me, that he was willing to cheat on me to get that sex (not acceptable behaviour to me), or to have sex with me when I do not consent (rape, to me).

A bit repetitious perhaps, but it sounds like a very ... focussed view of what sex is.

Certainly not something I'd recognise as a 50+ year old. "It's not sex if it's not PIV"? Sounds like Bill Clinton.

If my partner thought of me as a potential rapist, I'd be suggesting perhaps we ought to separate, but then...

McHappyPants2012 · 26/08/2012 22:40

Op has every right to refuse sex.

I don't think a relationship is possible with out sex, I know what turns my husband on and I would be constantly on egg shells to avoid turning him on iykwim.

WorraLiberty · 26/08/2012 22:40

Narked she is forcing him into celibacy by witholding penetrative sex until he agrees to her demand.

If she doesn't want to risk pregnacy then she has other options...she can get herself sterilised, use condoms, take the MAP if it splits or use any other form of contraception.

But she doesn't want any of that...she just wants her demand met.

If he doesn't meet it then that's it for the rest of his life...no penetrative sex.

OneMoreChap · 26/08/2012 22:42

WorraLiberty Sun 26-Aug-12 22:40:30
Narked she is forcing him into celibacy by witholding penetrative sex until he agrees to her demand.

Since when did non-PIV become celibacy?
An awful lot of celibate gay/lesbian couples then!

There's an awful lot of lines being drawn in the sand here, which I doubt the OP (or her DH) would recognise.

NarkedRaspberry · 26/08/2012 22:44

'If she doesn't want to risk pregnacy then she has other options...she can get herself sterilised, use condoms, take the MAP if it splits or use any other form of contraception.'

Silly me. I thought that two adults in a relationship are both responsible for contraception. I didn't realise women are expected to take all the responsibility and all the health risks and get on with having penetrative sex because otherwise she's be making 'demands' Hmm

WorraLiberty · 26/08/2012 22:46

OneMore'Chap'

How many people do you think would be happy to never have their sexual experience end in actual penetrative sex?

I most certainly would feel as though my DH was forcing me into celibacy if he refused to penetrate me until I caved into his demand.

Kayano · 26/08/2012 22:47

Condoms are not all the woman's responsibility and they have been dismissed too Hmm

WorraLiberty · 26/08/2012 22:48

Narked the guy has only one option available to him and that's invasive surgery on his body that he doesn't want.

Or have you missed that bit?

GhostShip · 26/08/2012 22:50

Just do anal.

I joke before someone kicks off...

McHappyPants2012 · 26/08/2012 22:52

The only compromise I can think of it a diaphragm or a sponge and a condom together until a long term solution can be made

Original poster
Peachesinthesummertime · 26/08/2012 22:53

Worra - I think a marriage is about both partners being considerate towards each other. That's why I'm cross really, because DH knows perfectly well what I've gone through over the past few years. Obviously the bloke can't have the babies and can't breastfeed, but i'm cross that he isn't prepared (to date) to even enter into any kind of debate on this or to make any sacrifices himself. It seems inconsiderate and selfish to me. But I do accept that my approach has perhaps not been the most mature...

OP posts:
Inertia · 26/08/2012 22:53

Onemorechap- as long as the male partner does not demand sex when the female partner is unwilling, then it's unlikely that she'd think of him as a potential rapist. If he did demand sex when she was unwilling- well, what else would you call him?

OneMoreChap · 26/08/2012 22:54

WorraLiberty Sun 26-Aug-12 22:46:22
OneMore'Chap' why do I rate the quotes round chap?

How many people do you think would be happy to never have their sexual experience end in actual penetrative sex?

A lot more than would rather have no sexual contact at all.

I most certainly would feel as though my DH was forcing me into celibacy if he refused to penetrate me until I caved into his demand.

If I got plenty of non PIV, I dare say I'd cope. Certainly much more than my wife withdrawing from me altogether.

One previous GF never ever came with PIV. It was always just for my pleasure... I used to get a lot of alternative endings. As long as my partner enjoys it, and she helps me enjoy it... I don't mind too much where she helps me enjoy it.

NarkedRaspberry · 26/08/2012 22:55

Condoms split. The OP said 'I've experienced several incidents in the past of condoms splitting'.

Can you explain why he is allowed complete control over his body but it's totally unreasonable of her to have control over her body? To refuse to allow his penis into to her vagina or say she doesn't want to have an implant inserted into her body or take drugs?

Kayano · 26/08/2012 22:55

But nowhere has this chap demanded piv as far as I can see? We are getting off course.

Inertia · 26/08/2012 22:56

Peaches- you're right, that is how marriage should work. Whether he wants a vasectomy or not, he needs to be willing to engage in a debate about what you as a couple can do to solve the problem. It is not solely your responsibility as the woman to take all responsibility.

AnnieLobeseder · 26/08/2012 22:56

There seem to be two camps here:

  1. those who believe the OP is using sex as a weapon to get her DH to do what she wants, which I would agree would be abhorrent.
  2. those who believe the OP is simply using to choose abstaining from penetrative sex as a method of contraception until she and her DH come to an agreement which is acceptable to both of them. Which seems reasonable to me. But since he is refusing to discuss all the options, which includes vasectomy, coming to that decision is proving difficult. Which

We are arguing back and forth, but since we are coming at it from different angles, there isn't going to any agreement.

OP, another idea I though of, if you do find your libido returning and you actually would like penetrative sex, is a combination of natural family planning with charting, condoms and him withdrawing for orgasm. A lot of hassle for both of you, but it should be very effective.

CouthyMow · 26/08/2012 22:56

Onemorechap - my ex did not like giving oral sex, I did not like that either. He also disliked masturbation. To him, he either had PIV or not at all. And when I say he dislikes masturbation - he did not masturbate even by himself, and tbh, I believe him in that, after 13 years we had together!

And no, it is no fun for me, being unable to get turned on when with a man, (I can alone, as there is no risk of pregnancy) while there is a risk of pregnancy.

I already have 4 DC's, two of them have Autism and other medical/health issues AND I have disabilities myself. It was positively dangerous for me to have had the fourth DC after a 7 year gap due to my health, another one would be insanity, health wise for me.

I have been fighting my PCT for 9 years to try to get sterilised, on health grounds, and due to how 'young' I am, it has taken me that long to be successful. All of which my ex knew. So not ALL the abstinence was down to me, as my ex refused to do anything other than penetrative sex for the whole 13 years of our relationship, so a refusal from me for penetrative sex DID mean, in our case, no sex at all.

Tbh, I can't wait until my sterilisation op is over and done with so I can get some! Blush

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