to want to exclude one child

[Ithinkitsjustme]

My DD2 is going back to pre-school next week but all her close friends have gone to school this year so she'll have to start again. She's never had a birthday party but as she will be 4 in October I thought I would hire a fun bus and invite all the "step-up" kids (those who will be going to school with her) to a party in the half term. Last year 2 boys made her life miserable and she was terrified of both of them. They were always hitting her, taking her toys away, pushing her etc. One of them has now left but I don't want to invite the other one to her party (unless he has miraculously changed over the summer Break), WIBU to leave him out if things haven't changed? (I would be inviting ALL the others)

It will be a lesson to kids that they don't have to be to very party. I had smaller parties for dd at preschool, say 16/17 out of a class of 30'nwaybam I doing whole class parties I hate them. Fete your dd does indeed sound lovely

5mad,

According to what people are taught as pre school teachers, knowing bullying (collaboratively picking on one child) can start at 4. Three year olds are capable of likes and dislikes and can be mean to a child but it is more likely to be impulsive behaviour than known bullying. Having done a quick google on when bullying starts, you can find a lot of articles in psychiatric journals saying 3-4, although others say later. I think it is a fantasy to presume that all children are equally pleasant and that, age 3-4, the only difference is impulse control and whether they have been taught to manage it.

If "horrible as it is, our children do have to learn...", then, horrible as it is, the other child needs to deal with not going to a party. I assure you he will deal with that far more easily than the OP's daughter has dealt with being repeatedly physically attacked and had her personal space invaded.

In any event, I don't see it as a parent's responsibility to deal with other children's issues, wherever they have arisen. Their duty is primarily to their own children. If the OP's daughter wants everyone bar this one child, I can see no real justification for not doing exactly that.

This is a really difficult situation to be in OP. I would speak with the boys parents and ask if there was a reason he behaved the way he does e.g. does he have some level of SEN. If there is no reason then explain to his parents that in light of his previous behavior towards your DD then you are unable to invite him as this causes her a great deal of distress.

I would have thought any right minded parent would not object as you have ruled out why the behavior may have occurred and then explained why he is unable to attend. Life is unfair sometimes but this would teach a child that actions do have consequences.

www.independent.co.uk/news/school-bullying-starts-from-the-age-of-three-1579660.html

I do see your point Morloth

However on the other side of the coin

"So so easy to avoid this by simply having a smaller party and showing a bit of tact."

These are the parties my son never gets invited too. Then it's just the "select few", the same children over and over. Obvious exception when his best friend throws a party. Then we have the joy of being first on the list!

My son used to get the odd invite when the whole class was invited. But if my DS was in the same class as OP's daughter. Say he would have been invited but didn't make the top 12? Is it then right than my DS misses out as she's scaled down the party because of one boy? Does anyone think about the children that would have been invited but now are not?

It's a bloody minefield, but it's your child's birthday. Do what makes them happy. It's one day out of 365. Yes it's hard when your child misses out, as the other threads show. But I'd hate to see my DS at a party where he wasn't wanted, where the child had been told "You must have X there or there is no party". can only imagine that would cause resentment. Would anyone here attend a party where they weren't wanted?

I would never exclude one child as I think that's really nasty. This little boy isn't yet 4 years old and so the chances are none of it was done with malice anyway and there is every chance that he will have grown out of it. FWIW there was a difficult little boy in dd's class who was never invited to parties I invited him to dd's and he was as good as gold and he never ever bothered dd even if he was still really rough with their classmates. He grew into a lovely young boy, he just took a little longer than the rest tbh.
If you don't want to invite the class as a whole then you should invite either the ones dd plays with most or all the girls IMO.

No need to explain just dont invite him

i never said all children are equally pleasant, some are always going to be more difficult than others, i have experienced that with my own five.

i would disagree that bullying starts at 3, i would say that nearer to 5 they can be more intentional and target others deliberately. school probably doesnt help that situation actually.

this is a boy whose behaviour has been a problem since 2yrs old and has not been tackled, the pre-school have failed the ops dd if they have let it go on and again we only have the word of a three year old tha this boy is deliberately and consistently picking on her, a three year olds version of events can vary dramatically from what is actually happening. if however this is what is happening my questino would be what has the op said to the pre-school, how are they tackling it and if they arent why would you leave your child in that pre-school?

btw impulse control and the cognitive part of the brain that deals with this is not fully matured in most people until the early twenties. it is something that gradually develops over time and most 3/4 yr olds will struggle with it. this is actually something that is being looked at at the moment with regards to the legal age of responsibility etc.

We had that situation last year, we invited the child concerned as otherwise he'd have been the only boy not to have been invited and it'd have been unfair not to. With half the class being there it didn't make any difference to my DC, we sorted the seating plan for food afterwards (by putting named food boxes in each place) so he was sitting at the far end of the table from my DS and he was fine with that.

Unfortunately tats life debeeze and your sods has to get used to it. I was I. The same boat from about 5 to 11 at te same school, I only gt 2 invites. I was the one with sn, the odd one, bt quirkily they would call it p. Tbh I don't careless and dident at the time either, I had incredibly thick skin. You cannot please everyone, so do what makes your dd happy

Meant ds silly predictive text I am sorry I should learn to read before sending

Because if it is only the select few then it still isn't a direct personal attack on your DS.

So he has a best friend, there are times when he is the select few.

DS1 is the most boring bog standard child you can imagine, he isn't one of life's great worriers, he doesn't take things personally, stuff just rolls off. But I know even he would be hurt to be excluded when all the others are going.

I am all about putting my kids first when it matters, but really? If DS wanted to have a party and exclude just one child I would tell him that was not possible, no matter his reasons for wanting to exclude them. There is no reason to hurt this boy, none at all. If the OP does so, it will simply be because she wants to.

Now, I really need to go to sleep! Talk amongst yourselves for a bit...

I know he has to get used to it Piglet. I've supported OP's rights and pointed out I have no right to expect an invite to anyone's party. It's up to them.

I'm arguing you can't use 'exclusion is awful' as an excuse but say it's fine to exclude more children. Why it is unfair to exclude one child who upsets the OP's DC. But fair to exclude the child who is upsetting her and some of her friends/people she wanted there? Still exclusion, but now OP's DC has missed out.

I was not for a second implying my DS should get an invite to try and please everyone. I mentioned earlier I understand why he doesn't and we don't take it personally.

5Mad,

With respect to our own child, he was "bullied" for a short while by two children. We went to discuss it with the school and it was definitely dealt with very effectively. He was far happier within a week and it has never been an issue again. One of the children is now his friend but he has never forgiven the other one and still randomly starts conversations with "X is not a nice boy" or "I don't like X" several weeks into the holiday and even after we have explained that he will never have to see X again. I could not imagine myself ever forcing my child to socialise with someone that he clearly detests. You would not do it with an adult so why do it for someone far more vulnerable?

Debeez,

100% agree with everything that you say.

Fgs, you ate not wrong to leave him out. At four, my DS had numerous invitations to parties which we didn't attend and probably wasn't invited to others, he was not bothered in the slightest.

He was bullied at preschool by a boy who had a mother in denial about his behaviour. Teachers couldnt be bothered to sort it so suggested I invite this child for a play date so they could get to know each other better. I put it to my son who refused, no way would I force him into it. It seemed to stop after I saw him push my son for no reason, I stuck my finger in his face and said don't you DARE touch my son again. He never did, although DS still did not like him.

I don't think your Dd should suffer for the sake of the Pc brigade.

and your school dealt with it, thats great, this pre-school is NOT dealing with it, infact we dont even know if the pre-school know there is a problem, or what they know is happening, we have a three year olds word that she is being picked on.

i am glad your sons situation was dealt with, i actually removed my eldest child from his school as bullying wasnt dealt wiht an this meant moving ds2 to a different school as well. my son spoke about his bullies for a long time and now he is at high school and there are some children who behave in a horrible manner. the school are dealing with it, but at high school its a very different situation. when my son says these boys are not very nice or they are 'chavs' etc i agree that their behaviour is not very nice but i also remind him that it is not very nice to talk about people and say they are horrible and nasty or chavy. not liking someone is fine, distancing yourself from them is fine, but to deliberatly exclude ONE person is not very nice, nor is talking about what a horrible person they are. no-one is perfect, we all have traits that could be improved on or are not very nice.

i will help to teach my children to deal with these situations, i will get school involved when necessary and in this situation i would have a smaller party, but i would never single out one child, particularly at such a young age when we have no idea hwat other issues are going on and when as far as i can tell those most responsible are infact the pre-school who have let this continue for a year!

How would you feel if it was your pfb?

Bloody embarrassed that my child had been excluded because he was a bully

5Mad,

You are missing my point. Maybe the OP spoke to the school. Maybe the school dealt with it quickly. My point is that the behaviour, even if short lived, makes a big impression on the victim and that impression lasts a long time. I and my wife have repeatedly told our son that not everyone is going to be his friend and not everyone is nice and that he has lots of lovely friends and does not need to worry about one child. Bullying (or whatever you choose to call it) has a deep effect and takes a lot of countering.

Are you a lawyer for this other child, questioning the evidence? If your 3 year old comes home in tears and says another child is picking on him/her, do you cross question them and make a defence for the other child? Personally, I choose to believe my own son.

Clearly, this child has made the OP's daughter unhappy. For me, that is enough.

If he's invited I would keep a very close eye on him

Why should the OP spend her DDs birthday party policing the behaviour of a child she doesn't want to invite just so she can tick some right-on inclusivity box ?

Am just remembering when my DD was little. I was friend with another mum, and she had a little boy the same age as DD. He was quite a sweet little boy initially and they played together very happily from about 18 months on. They were both quite boisterous and it worked well.

But then the boy changed. He became more and more aggressive and by the time he was 3 he was a nightmare. On one occasion he bit my daughter. On another occasion, we had a few friends around with their kids and he attacked a little girl who was about 2 (he was driving one of those big plastic toy cars and he drove it into her). He hit my DD. It basically ruined what should have been a nice family occasion with just a few friends and their kids.

And I don't think it was his fault that he changed. His parents never told him off, and always made excuses for him. He spent a lot of time with an unofficial childminder who also looked after her very aggressive older grandchildren. These grandkids would get away with murder but she would hit my friend's son if he was naughty.

So it was all very sad, but the truth is, I just didn't want him near my daughter. I didn't want to have her to put up with being pushed, or thumped or bitten, any more than I would want to spend time with an adult who did those things to me.

Luckily when he was a little bit older, they moved away. But the point is, your first responsibility is towards your own child.

no i am not i already said i took my child out of a school when they didnt deal with it.

why would you leave your child in a pre-school where they are being made so miserable

and yes btw when my children come to me saying 'so and so has done such and such i do ask them exactly what happened in the run up to the incident, i am not naive enough to believe that a young childs version of events is always going to be totally factual! if i need to i will go in and check with a teacher/the school.

i ahd exactly the issue you describe a boy went crying to his dad saying my ds2 had kicked him and he came and had a right go at me, shouting at me in the playground. i questioned ds2 as to what had happened and spoke to the school who said yes ds2 had lashed out but this boy had been deliberately cajouling and winding up ds2, pushing him and goading him, the other parent refused to accept this. so when one of mine comes to me i try and find out the FACTS, children dont always present a clear view of something that has happened.

in my case this dad listened to his son say 'so and so kicked me' and that was all he needed to go mental, yet the truth was his son had started the incident and actually IF he had spoken to me calmly i would spoken to him and IF he had spoken to the school he would have found out they were aware of the incident and had disciplined BOTH boys. he would also have been told that his boy in the teachers words "saw my ds2 as a toy who he could wind up and let go and he took great delight in doing just that" but he didnt care to find out the facts, he simply accepted his sons word as truth.

i wont make a defence for the other child, i will try and get all the facts and yes i will explain to my child that they are ALL only LEARNING, if there was an issue i would raise it with the school or talk toa parent calmly, i wouldnt naively believe my child is telling the whole truth, even if they are not meaning to they can distort the situation, simply because they are only children.

You have two diplomatic and fair options: if your daughter would be upset by the idea of inviting this boy then invite a smaller group which doesn?t include him; or else invite everyone and make sure there are enough adults around to keep everything safe and jolly.

You don?t really know the parents to talk to? Then telling them that their son?s behaviour is terrible and your daughter is scared of him is not a good way to introduce yourselves and make the party succeed! And in the bigger pciture really I wouldn?t tackle the parents at all. If they are concerned about their son?s behaviour there is nothing they can do about what happens during pre-school; and if they are not concerned then they could get quite unpleasant. The people you should speak to are the pre-school. If two boys have ?always? tormented your daughter then the pre-school has failed to manage them and if it starts again this year then I would go in there and make a huge fuss.

"Went crying to his Dad"

Horrid little whinger, should have just taken a good kicking. Your choice of language is telling.

Anyway, this is a birthday party exclusion, not "going mental" or "having a go" at the parents. No one has a right to go to every party and I would not want (and did not want, as a child) to go somewhere where I was clearly not really wanted.

Why not invite just her close friends. It is her birthday not a PR exercise.

I never understood this.fascination for inviting the whole.class.your child.can't possibly be friends with everyone.

Children enjoy smaller parties as much perhaps.even more as.mum isn't rushed off her.feet. just invite her.close friends.