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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder whether a man can be raped?

180 replies

JazzAnnNonMouse · 24/08/2012 06:04

I do not mean Anally.

Reading the thread about rape being any form of non mutual enthusiasm (although I can't seem to put it so eloquently, sorry). I think it has opened my mind to what rape actually is.
I was wondering therefore can a man be raped because they have to have some enthusiasm to gain an erection. (unless drugged I guess?)

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 24/08/2012 13:18

Trills

"Can a man be raped? Only by another man, because the definition of rape requires a penis."

Should really be changed to "In the UK a man can only be raped by another man, because the definition of rape in the UK requires a penis"

Trills · 24/08/2012 13:19

Fair point.

Should probably use the word "legally", as well, to distinguish from morally.

mayorquimby · 24/08/2012 13:35

"Or does sexual assault carry the same heavy sentence as rape?"

Yes it does.
I do think the law needs changing because there are instances where the same conduct by a man and a woman carries 2 different criminal charges (I'm thinking in particular where consent is vitiated by deceit) and I'm sure that this must be potentially harmful to a section of jury members thought process.
I.e. a man sitting there thinking "well if a woman did the same it wouldn't be classed as rape so why should this guy be branded a rapist?"

Graceymakelot · 24/08/2012 13:39

Hi I'm new here, I'm looking for advice and discussion on other subjects which I will go to but this struck my heart. My brother was raped, not by a woman but by a man.

When he was finally able to discuss it, he had so many breakdowns he was mentally ill, this was less than 2 months after the 'rape'.
He is now essentially catatonic, he isn't my brother or my kids uncle.

I don't believe the action should dictate the outcome. If as a manager I make someone cry, I may be bullying, if that person is thick skinned and accepts loud blunt words then it isn't bullying. It's hires for courses.

Therefore I think the action can't be classed as rape, it is entirely on how the recipient takes it, and that's the problem trying to pigeon hole things for men and women.

Did you concent? Physics and sexual orientation is irrelevant.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 24/08/2012 14:03

Gracey I am not sure of your point but Your brother was certainly raped within the current legal definition if penetrated by a penis.
I am so sorry that happened.

Graceymakelot · 24/08/2012 14:37

I suppose my point was if he put himself ingay bar on canal street and went home with another man, then had anal, then all is good, but he went home and wad drugged before he could say no.

If you ask, can a man be raped by a woman, I would say that perhaps we shouldn't be pidgin hole rape, someone has done something to them, the rape, assault, bully, harm, risk etc etc is all in the eye of the beholder, who is the victim, who shoul be heard/helped/Protected.

Mrbojangles1 · 24/08/2012 14:49

Whatmeworry i love sleepy sex to i like to be woken up with it so to speak

Am i being rapedConfused sometimes i brush him off but most of the time i dont Grin

Mrbojangles1 · 24/08/2012 14:51

My mate was at a pary and was blindfoled he was getting ready to have sex with a girl he meet there or so he thought

Half way through he took the blindfold off as he thought somthing was off the had swapped with her mate and he been having sex this imposter all along

He was aplled they group of girls thought it was funny and couldnt see the issue he still got laid as they put it

I just find it shocking that a women could think this was ok i thought he should of gone to the police

OneMoreChap · 24/08/2012 14:53

Mrbojangles1 Fri 24-Aug-12 14:49:37
Whatmeworry i love sleepy sex to i like to be woken up with it so to speak

Am i being raped sometimes i brush him off but most of the time i dont

If you consent, that's fine.
If you don't, and he stops [he's ascertained after], that's up to you whether you're fine about it. (though if you usually like it, and he knows that he's got an argument for reasonable belief in consent)
If you don't consent and he doesn't stop that's rape.

This really isn't hard.

Mrbojangles1 · 24/08/2012 14:53

I my view my mate was raped can you imagin having sex with somone a halfway trough there mate sneaking in to take over

CailinDana · 24/08/2012 14:54

No Mrbo, of course you're not being raped, because you want to have sex, and if you don't want it you can brush him off. The situation in which it would be rape would be if he had never ascertained whether you were ok with him starting sex, and you woke up one night to find him on top of you. You could be ok with it, in which case it wouldn't be rape (but he took a big risk) or you could feel it was rape (in which case the risk he took backfired). Also, if you were normally ok with it but you woke up and wanted him to stop, but he didn't, that would also be rape as again you would be having sex you didn't want. The point is your DH knows you're ok with sleepy sex and will stop if you seem not ok with it. So you're safe, and not in danger of being raped.

SigmundFraude · 24/08/2012 15:09

Just to go back to the fact that in the UK women cannot be charged with rape of a male. Someone told me on here (can't remember who), that in Canada, there is no crime of rape..it is classed as sexual assault and covers both men and women, and other types of sexual assaults too.

This seems to me to be the best system, and treats both sexes equally, as the law should.

mayorquimby · 24/08/2012 15:26

"My mate was at a pary and ...."

And that is the type of situation I was talking about whereby the exact same conduct by a man and a woman would see them charged with different criminal offences, which surely has the potential to negatively prejudice certain jurors.

monsterchild · 24/08/2012 15:27

Sigmund, the same is true in the USA.it doesn't change penalties for women or men just what the nature of the assault was. the same is applied to sexual assault on children, which can be much more subtle sometimes

TheFidgetySheep · 24/08/2012 15:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FateLovesTheFearless · 24/08/2012 15:55

Course a man can be raped. The law is ridiculous.

BoneyBackJefferson · 24/08/2012 16:14

Mrbojangles1

I agree with your post your friend was raped.

seeker · 24/08/2012 16:41

Just wondering why he was blindfolded?

tryinghardtounderstand · 25/08/2012 02:04

Just adding my voice to all those who agree that I man can be raped; rape is any non-consensual sex and can happen to woman or men, and not saying no does not nessessarily imply consent.

My DH was sexually abused by his father as a child (not raped as there was no penetration), and I think one of the hardest things for him to come to terms with was that at the time he felt that he enjoyed it as he had physical responses to the stimulation. It is a great source of shame to him.

As an adult he struggles with boundaries and saying no to people. In the past he has had sex with people without wanting to and this is also a source of shame to him, and I think he feels very weak for allowing this to happen. As a child he dissociated during the abuse (for him this was enjoying the physical sensations but being completely shut down emotionally so it was like it wasn't really happening), and after therapy has come to understand that this is why he had unwanted sex as an adult - he dissociated because he couldn't say no, and didn't even realise he had the right to say no. Under these circumstances I don't think he was 'there' to say no, but as far as partners were concerned I am sure they thought it was consensual as he responded to them physically, while being emotionally absent. Is this a grey area of sexual consent do you think?

I feel so sad for him and angry on his behalf about what happened to him when he was a child and at how it has continued to affect him

CheerfulYank · 25/08/2012 02:14

Oh, trying . Your poor DH, that's awful. :(

Yes, men can be raped, certainly!

My DH and I also have "sleepy sex" but we know that we both want it and have done it in the past.

seeker · 25/08/2012 06:31

I am am finding this thread increasingly difficult. obviously what happened to tryinhhardtounderstand's dh as a child was awful, and the psychological consequences equally awful. But are people saying that if a man is in a psychological place where he dissaassiciates and therefore has sex that he doesn't want but consents to then he has been raped?

I'm sorry to home in on your dh's sad story, trying hard- but it does seem an importan point.

SoupDragon · 25/08/2012 07:02

"But are people saying that if a man is in a psychological place where he dissaassiciates and therefore has sex that he doesn't want but consents to then he has been raped?"

But surely if you have disassociated from it then you haven't consented just not explicitly said "no".

seeker · 25/08/2012 07:18

But- and I'm sorry to be basic- surely the fact that as a man you are actually having piv sex would sort of imply consent? Unless we're talking about these " woman using sleeping man as dildo" scenarios? if you actively do something with your penis then you are not being raped.

SoupDragon · 25/08/2012 07:36

So a woman who is forced to do X, Y or Z isn't raped because she did it?

FallenCaryatid · 25/08/2012 08:00

I think you are getting hung up on the hydraulics of the process seeker, and you are victim-blaming.
All those women who don't want sex but do it any way, lying back and thinking of England because they have been programmed to think it is the only acceptable way to conduct a relationship. All those females that lie passively like dead fish in bed whilst sex is done to them. Men who don't want sex, but comply and disassociate, because that's what is supposed to happen, who have been abused in the past and don't know what a normal, loving and mutually-interactive relationship is are in the same set IMO.
I hope things work out for you and your DH, trying. Loving someone from an abused background is an incredibly challenging thing for both partners.

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