to be a little suspicious of landlord MIL.

[SmellsLikeTeenStrop]

Sorry, this is long.

DH and I rent from my MIL. She bought the house for DH before we met and there was always the understanding that when he had a steady income that would enable him to take on a mortgage she would let him buy the house at the same price she paid for it.

This was over 10 years ago, DH and I live here with our DCs and we're now in a position where we can buy the house, but now the plan seems to have changed. MIL is very cagey when we try and talk to her about buying the house. In the past she's said she'll 'be fair' when it comes to selling the house, but she's also said that for various reasons it would be impossible to sell the house to us for anything less than full market value. We've been told that the rent barely covers the mortgage and insurance, but we've also been told that she relies on our rent as her main source of income.

The last discussion we had she was pushing towards us not buying the house but instead having our names added to the mortgage and taking over the mortgage payments. I asked her how much the mortgage was and she claimed not to remember.

She's not been the best landlord in the world, she's made no effort to update the house at all. We can't have the boiler serviced because it's so old there are no parts available for it - but she can't replace the boiler as she has no money. The house is in massive need of updating, the kitchen is at least 30 years old, ditto the bathroom. The windows we're fighting a losing battle with, we sand them down and paint them every other year but they're deteriorating more and more.

For a house we're merely renting, it's not suitable for us any more. We're expecting another DC soon and we're a bit squished as it is. If we owned the house DH and I would hang on here a bit longer to improve the house and hopefully get it to a point where we can sell it on at market value and use the equity for a bigger home. Alternatively we could extend and/or add a loft conversion. MIL is aware that this is what we want to do and has said that this would be fine, but that was when we weren't in a position where we could actually buy the house.

If she won't sell us this house than the only real alternative is for us to move out. I won't hang on renting a house that is too small for us, especially with all the issues we're having with it. Us moving out would either force MIL to sell, or to invest a few thousand in to the property before she could get new tenants in. Given the amount of work the house needs, I can't imagine it would sell very quickly unless she sold it very cheaply.

So, after this huge wall of text. AIBU to be suspicious of MIL and WIBU to expect her to honour the promise she made to DH but if that really is impossible for her, to give us a mahoosive discount to take in to account the years of rental we've been paying, plus the huge amount of money we'll need to invest in the house?

Please get your boiler serviced asap, tomorrow if you can. My father rents his house out to me and has never had my boiler serviced!!!
I had my gas meter changed last week, technician switched heating on to check meter was working and found it to be omitting carbon monoxide complete with yellow flame. He told me that my family could have been killed if it hadn't been for the fact it was in a cupboard, if the door had of been left opened we would have died.
My landlord needs to give permission for any work to be done but has been useless at being contacted (he's away) so i have no hot water and still nothing has been fixed grrr

If i had money for rent deposits etc i would move as soon as but at the mo im not in the position to. You sound like you have the finances to get out, you should

If it needs rewired (likely) that will be a condition of any new mortgage.

It probably will be a 5 figure sum to make it safe.

Good luck OP. Try the broken record approach 'in order for us to stay you need to do X, Y and Z this week'

At the root of this entire thread is the belief that many people of an older generation have in property investment that it always goes up in price and your tenant is a stupid sap who is only ever there to pay your mortgage while you watch the profit roll in without doing any work and all you to keep borrowing to buy more properties.

Those days are over. Prices have stalled and are now falling while the law is now so much stricter on the rights of tenants and the obligations of landlords.

I'd see if you can see a mortgage advisor sooner rather than later. If you can know your position, you can move fast if you're in rented. (and I guess only have to give her a month's notice, let her sue you for more, what's she going to do? all you'd have to do is report the boiler, it'll be seen as unfit for habitation and you'll be able to get out ASAP)

I would only buy it from her if she's prepared to let you pay what she orignially paid for it, if she's upped her debt, that's her problem (she might have borrowed against it to do up the other rental house). I would have thought you could get something similar that while might need work to extend etc, you wouldn't need to replace the boiler etc. Or rent something for a similar amount that's the same size and continue to save. She'll be forced to do the work then if she wants to rent it out for what you're paying.

This thread has caused me to come to a sickening realisation. I am absolutely certain that most of the homeowning family elders don't get their gas appliances checked, either. Right, how can I get them to fit CO alarms without being condescending? I think I'll have to take my own advice about scary print-outs, and take my debit card to Argos. It's Christmas coming up, after all!

i almost died of carbon monoxide poisoning. i collapsed, got taken to hospital, the dr told me i had a migraine and i argued that i knew fine well i didnt, but got discharged anyway. the next day i collapsed again, was found unconscious by my flatmate and about half an hour from death.
i had no idea what was going on, i just felt dizzy and sick (puked on the paramedic for good measure ), and have no idea what bright spark thought to do blood tests but they saved my life. until then they thought i'd taken something.
please, please get this boiler sorted TODAY. this is not something i would ever want to happen to you, or anyone for that matter, but be aware that children are more susceptible to the effects of carbon monoxide. if she refuses to pay, remind her that she doesnt have a gas safety certificate, and she could be in serious trouble for renting a property without one.

ZOOPLA will allow you to check out the price she paid for the property it does for every property brought and sold in the UK, that should give you a fair idea of the price, then formally and in writing ( obviously check you can get the mortgage) offer her that if she wont accept it then it's time you moved on and brought your own home in better condition.

You've done your best you are not obliged to stay there and you have been paying her the mortgage payment for years.

Speak to your DH I bet deep down he suspects he may have been duped by his mum if you are over paying beware of the possible fall out.

Thankgod you are now ok Ipswitch, thankfully getting my gas meter replaced saved my family's lifes or god knows what would have happened
My boiler has been condemned, and has to be replaced as it cant be fixed due to i giving out too much Co2.
Hoping my landlord gets it done pronto......time will tell

Op get it done today your lifes may be at stake

I read your thread pumpkinsweetie, is it possible for you to start putting small amounts of money aside for a rent deposit. I think you said your DH may be made redundant soon, but even a couple of quid a week would help. I wonder if anyone has ever rented from a family and not been taken advantage of?

You're right, financially we are in a position where we could move out, but I'm 37 weeks pregnant, so handing in our notice right now just isn't practical.

ipswichwitch, yikes! When we see MIL over the weekend we'll be pushing to have the boiler fixed ASAP, before we start needing to use it when it gets cold. I have got a CO detector, the type that sounds an alarm when it detects CO above the safe limit.

I have checked out zoopla theboutiquemummy but she has re-mortgaged since then.

I was thinking today, who on earth would have 2 rental properties plus several she rents out short term as holiday homes, and not have any money put aside for repairs. Jesus christ I am dim.

DH thinks she'll push the line that she bought this home for us and its' really our home therefore we're responsible for all the repairs. The obvious response is, that whatever her intention was when she bought the house she still made DH sign a tenancy agreement and because of that she has certain legal obligations that include making sure the boiler is well maintained and safe. Should I also point out that her actions point to her considering the property her own to do with as she pleases? Mainly it's the re-mortgaging thing, she just announced that she was going to and there would be a surveyor round on this particular day. No discussion or letting us know the implications re-mortgaging would have on our ability to purchase the house at a future date. We don't even know how much she re-mortgaged for.

You are in no way responsible for repairs unless she signs the house over to you. The house, not her mortgage.

Her re-mortgaging is nothing to do with you. It was her choice, and is her debt.

She sounds pretty horrible actually. How is she justifying this situation to herself?

From comments she's made in the past, I agree with DHs thoughts that she'll justify this situation by claiming the house is really ours, because she bought it for DH to buy at a future time and she was just holding the mortgage until we could afford to take it over. She has actually said that she doesn't consider this house as belonging to her.

I realise the choice to re-mortgage has nothing to do with us but I'm wondering if the fact of re-mortgaging indicates a belief that all along she does consider the house hers, actions speak louder than words and all that.

Or she thought she could take the cash and get you to pay for it later. Perhaps she really is that nasty.

She has actually said that she doesn't consider this house as belonging to her

So has she ever explained why she's collecting rent off you, then?

If she says it again, ask for all the rent money back.

"She has actually said that she doesn't consider this house as belonging to her."

Yet she made DH sign a tenancy agreement, makes you pay rent and remortgages to take money out of the property on a fairly regular basis.

Hmmm...... let me think about that one for a moment.

Nope. Its hers.

but she's also said that for various reasons it would be impossible to sell the house to us for anything less than full market value

• this - if the house has actually risen in value over the last 10 years, and you were to buy it from MIL at purchase price, I think you might get into trouble with HMRC, since they might view it as an attempt to avoid inheritance tax. If you do start getting into talks about buying the house at purchase price, you would need to look into this.

Also, as others have said, do not get put onto the mortgage unless you are also put onto the deeds of ownership. To be honest, I wouldn't take on any share of the mortgage unless I were really sure of its size versus the value of the house - get estate agents (or several) to give you quotes on the value of the house - don't accept a value given you by MIL, and make sure you are absolutely certain of the size of the mortgage(s- if there are several)!!!!!!

The best way out of this is to tell MIL to put it on the market and see what offers she gets. Then if she gets a written offer you can consider whether you want to buy it for say 5% more.

There a are a few families round us have done that where parents have sold their large house in the nicest area of town to their children and downsized to a retirement home or given the cash to their grandchildren.

That way, neither side feels cheated and HMRC are happy.

Could you tape the conversation when she calls round to discuss the boiler. How can she let her gc and son live in a dangerous house???
My nephew collapsed from carbon monoxide poisoning- sitting beside an outdoor gas heater( outside a cafe) Luckily his dad was a medic and acted quickly.

When she says she would let you have it for "the full market value" does she actually mean the value it is today, or the value she remortgaged for? I wouldn't assume that is the same thing.

Could you phone some estate agents in the morning, get them round to do a valuation tomorrow so that you can at least know what the house is worth, you should be able to work out if you could get a mortgage for that amount. (Make sure you point out to them the old boiler etc, you need what it's actually worth, not what it would be worth if the work is done).

roseum The full value of the house is well below the threshold to pay inheritance tax. Also, I don't want to buy this house any more. I just want it be a safe place to live for the remaining length of time that we'll be living here.

morebeta, not re-mortgage on a fairly regular basis, once for definite, possibly twice. It's not the re-mortgage itself that I particularly object to, but the fact that zero, zilch, nada, nothing was spent on this house with the money.

If it were me, I would arrange for a plumber, electrician and builder type to give me a written estimate for the necessary repairs to turn it into your dream home. You want these costs to be high and the property valuation to be as low as possible in order to get around the HMRC issue as best you can.

Arrange for several written valuations from an estate agent, pick lowest valuation [she'll be saving on the estate agents fees of circa 2%]
Offer to purchase house at lowest valuation, minus the cost of the repairs, assuming you think you can get a mortgage for it and have not been scared off by then.

The mortgage, or mortgages are her problem. On no account have your name added to anything. Do a straightforward sale and purchase agreement via a solicitor. She will need to discharge her mortgage(s) as part of selling the property and deal with the banks herself. If there is a variation eg: she is in negative equity, she will need to remortgage another asset, sell one or come up with the cash.

Your mortgage company will also value the house. If they value it at a lower price point than the estate agent, they will only lend you up to the value of their own estimates. It puts you in a very simple position that says, we can or not afford to buy this property.

I think there are two further alternatives is that you get the minimum repairs done, continue as you are and hope your husband is the sole heir to a property empire not burdened by 100% debt.... worst case she could pop her clogs in 10 or 20 yrs time and you might find that you have to sell the lot anyway.

or

You can walk away, rent or buy something else and leave her to it.

From a tax perspective - you won't get any credit for the rent you have sunk into the property. You should probably consider that cash gone. The very best outcome you can expect is that you pay market value for the house and your mother in law quietly pays the cost of all the repairs to reflect your investment.

I feel really sorry for you both - it's a really horrid situation to be in regardless of whether you have been ripped off intentionally or not.

"DH thinks she'll push the line that she bought this home for us and its' really our home therefore we're responsible for all the repairs."
Well if that's REALLY what she thinks she should toddle round to the solicitors' right away and sign the house over to you, since it's really yours. She can keep the mortgage, that's hers.

I agree with him, I think that is exactly what she will try. I'd just grind her down with "no it's not ours, your name is on the deeds and we are not going to spend our savings on your property." And then I'd impress upon her the risk she is taking with her grandchildren's lives (let's see her wriggle out of that one!) and that you are considering moving out now because you need to care for the children since she won't (and because you're so annoyed with her behaviour), and how much does she think she'll have to spend on the property to make it lettable to somebody else? And when that has sunk in, tell her that's what you expect her to spend on it NOW, for her family, who she's supposed to care about more than fecking strangers!

"Also, I don't want to buy this house any more."
Oh I am SO glad to hear you say that!

Oh I am SO glad to hear you say that!

, if I'm going to sink thousands in to a wreck of a property to get it up to a good standard, I want that old wreck to be the old wreck of my dreams.

oh god, when we talked about buying the house and she suggested that instead of doing that we put our names on the mortgage, she actually said she'd want a lump sum from us to make up for the reduction in income from rent.

That devious devious woman, she would have got out of her obligations as a landlord, we would have lost all our savings and then had to find the money to make all these vital repairs. You bet she'd claim that as we are the ones living here that she doesn't have to pay a penny towards them.