to be a little suspicious of landlord MIL.

[SmellsLikeTeenStrop]

Sorry, this is long.

DH and I rent from my MIL. She bought the house for DH before we met and there was always the understanding that when he had a steady income that would enable him to take on a mortgage she would let him buy the house at the same price she paid for it.

This was over 10 years ago, DH and I live here with our DCs and we're now in a position where we can buy the house, but now the plan seems to have changed. MIL is very cagey when we try and talk to her about buying the house. In the past she's said she'll 'be fair' when it comes to selling the house, but she's also said that for various reasons it would be impossible to sell the house to us for anything less than full market value. We've been told that the rent barely covers the mortgage and insurance, but we've also been told that she relies on our rent as her main source of income.

The last discussion we had she was pushing towards us not buying the house but instead having our names added to the mortgage and taking over the mortgage payments. I asked her how much the mortgage was and she claimed not to remember.

She's not been the best landlord in the world, she's made no effort to update the house at all. We can't have the boiler serviced because it's so old there are no parts available for it - but she can't replace the boiler as she has no money. The house is in massive need of updating, the kitchen is at least 30 years old, ditto the bathroom. The windows we're fighting a losing battle with, we sand them down and paint them every other year but they're deteriorating more and more.

For a house we're merely renting, it's not suitable for us any more. We're expecting another DC soon and we're a bit squished as it is. If we owned the house DH and I would hang on here a bit longer to improve the house and hopefully get it to a point where we can sell it on at market value and use the equity for a bigger home. Alternatively we could extend and/or add a loft conversion. MIL is aware that this is what we want to do and has said that this would be fine, but that was when we weren't in a position where we could actually buy the house.

If she won't sell us this house than the only real alternative is for us to move out. I won't hang on renting a house that is too small for us, especially with all the issues we're having with it. Us moving out would either force MIL to sell, or to invest a few thousand in to the property before she could get new tenants in. Given the amount of work the house needs, I can't imagine it would sell very quickly unless she sold it very cheaply.

So, after this huge wall of text. AIBU to be suspicious of MIL and WIBU to expect her to honour the promise she made to DH but if that really is impossible for her, to give us a mahoosive discount to take in to account the years of rental we've been paying, plus the huge amount of money we'll need to invest in the house?

Move out. Seriously, move out.

Nothing is in writing, she has already changed her mind and family and money DO NOT MIX WELL.

Go find a house you can afford and make it your own. As soon as you do she'll start making noises about giving you a discount/putting you onto the morgage. Ignore her.

You're much better off in a position where everybody understands their legal obligations and you know what to expect month by month.

I'll 2nd that narked, neither does business and family.

YANBU to be suspicious, she is stitching you up.

I second the suggestion of the carbon monoxide detector urgently. Then, in the short term, rent elsewhere . House no longer big enough so perfect excuse.

Why on earth would you let her put your names on the
mortgage ? You'd be responsible for the debt but have no ownership rights over the house.

I would just cut your losses here, rent elsewhere until you can buy,tell MIL that you need more space for new baby, and of course it's only fair that she should be able to let or sell at market value. She might find that's not as much as she thinks, especially as she cannot legally let the house without the boiler being checked and serviced annually.

DO NOT go on the mortgage! There is no benefit for you and a massive risk.

And can you not replace the boiler and deduct the cost from the rent? I woldn't normally suggest that anyone does this in a "normal" landlord-tennant situation but this is very far from being that kind of formal set-up and I can't imagine she is going to try to evict you!

Does your MIL rent her other houses through an agency or directly? I only ask because an agent would require the annual gas check etc... Are the other tennents treated differently?

I wouldn't pay for the boiler yourselves, as I doubt you'll see the money back.

Can you rent/buy in the same area or even the same street? Or are the houses the same sort of size? I'd sort out the boiler issue as everyone says above, and then start looking for somewhere else to live. If your MIL wasn't a relative and just your landlord, would you have stayed so long?

Look at Affordable Housing in your area (Probably on your local .gov website). All new developments have to sell a portion of the properties to Affordable Housing Associations. You can do First Buy, Shared Ownership (means part-renting- but is a better deal than it sounds) or Rental Schemes. The rental schemes sound like they could work for you. You move into a property at reduced rate rent for an amount of time that allows you to save a deposit. You can then buy using the First Buy or Shared Ownership scheme or on the open market if you choose, sometimes in the house you have been renting (Rent-to-buy). Hope this makes sense and is helpful to you.
Do not buy a house that is too small for you. I know so many people who are stuck in houses that are too small , they can't expand their family and they can't move due to negative equity. It is a good market to buy in but not to sell. So if you are going to put your name on something and part with your hard earned cash make sure it is a home that is suitable for you. And do not take on your MIL's debt. If you move she can rent to new tenants - you won't do her any harm by buying another house of your choosing.

Do you have a formal tenancy agreement? If so, does the damaged boiler not breach it? That would be my main concern at the minute.

To be brutally honest, I would just move out. Explain that you need a bigger house now, with a working boiler. It might take you longer to save for the deposit, but you wouldn't have to put up with living in a too-small house with a dangerous boiler.

I think you are right to be suspicious; if she was using this house like any other of her investment properties, she would have to replace the boiler. Clearly she thinks she can walk all over you because you are family. You are doing her a favour by renting a house she would otherwise have to fix up before renting. Do not spend your own money on the house, give her your notice and get out.

Managing the family politics of this will lbe the tricky part. No arguements, no embarrasment. You just need a bigger house. You dont need to buy a house that is too small or even rent one. You need a house that is right for you.

I second what Inertia said. Just tell MIL the house is no longer big enough. Giver 3 months notice and start looking to rent elsewhere. That will give her time to find a new tenant and/or put it on the market to sell.

I am fairly shocked t hear she has other invetsment properties. Does she treat all her tenants this way?

just buy a different house.

Tell MIL you would like to buy now, and you understand if she doesn't want to sell her house. Then start looking for a lovely new house that is not tied to MIL!!!

Do it.

(1) Get an estate agent to value it. Don't tell her. Say you are thinking of selling.
(2) Push your DH to find out the value of the mortgage - not you, him, it's his bloody mother.
(3) Work out whether it would EVERY be worth the market value to you.
(4) Make a decision.

Also re the boiler, there are grants for boiler replacement and also credit schemes where it is paid back over 10 years which can make it more affordable. But yes it is risky to stick in a house with an elderly unserviced boiler. You could always pay for an engineer to look at it - most of them will have a look for nothing with a view to getting a service contract if you explain you are concerned it's too old to service. Of course that risks it being classified unsafe and turned off but that would force her to take action.

If it's not her only property, can she offer you one in better condition?

Get the boiler checked straight away, and give your mil notice. This house sounds bad news.

The house we live in isn't her only investment property. Bloody hell, she knows what she is doing and she is stitching you up.

Find yourself somewhere new, give her notice, and leave. Don't say anything till you've got the new place sorted.

My contract says the tenant has to give a month's notice - I wouldn't give her too long tbh as that gives her more opportunity for emotional blackmail.

What does your DH think? It's his bloody mother so why the fuck is he lettin her treat him and her grandchildren like this?!

As for the boiler - as a minimum get a CO monitor. They're relatively cheap and you can at least check that out.

Give notice and move to another rental property. Let your MIL rent the house to other tenants.

Your MIl will need to get gas certificate done each year - it is illegal not to have one. Though it is her choice if she has appliances serviced, they must though be safe and pass the test. This will be regardless of who rents the property

I should think you would be paying cheaper rent than the going rate for a house with a 30 year old kitchen and bathroom, rotting windows and an ancient boiler which needs replacing! Obviously I don't know you or your mil but I would say that she would absolutely not get away with renting this property to "normal" (ie non family) tenants. Sounds like you are doing her a favour by renting it rather than her doing you a favour by giving you "cheap" rent. I actually feel quite for you! I would be moving out pronto!

What if the landlord doesn?t comply?

If a landlord does not have a valid gas safety certificate, or does not do works required, the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has the power to prosecute. Failure to follow gas safety requirements is a criminal offence and can be punished by fines or imprisonment.
from here

I would move out anyway for her messing you about.

Yer what? So when was the boiler last checked over by an engineer? Am I understanding you rightly- that no-one professional is asked to look at it, in case they declare it unsafe because there's no point, if the parts aren't available?

Anyway, assuming I'm not being over-cynical: if it cannot be serviced, then it is safer to presume it dangerous, than to give it the benefit of the doubt. It poses a risk to you. It also poses a risk to your neighbours, if you share connecting walls. Carbon monoxide can seep through cracks and crevices in walls, to poison the neighbours.

Does your MIL rent her other houses through an agency or directly?

She has holiday homes that she lets through an agency and another property she rents out to tenants, I think she does that directly.

What does your DH think? He doesn't want to get in to a confrontation with her. She's not of those people who gets nasty when confronted, I could deal with that. She's one of those who breaks down in to tears and tells you how much she loves you and how everything she does is for your benefit and she only wants the best for you. We did have a good discussion last night and he agrees with me that it is time for a chat with the MIL. I think he's more forgiving of the house than I am. MIL has let him dig the front garden over and turn it in to a vegetable plot. He wouldn't have that freedom with a different non-related landlord.

If it's not her only property, can she offer you one in better condition?

Not in the town we live in.

So when was the boiler last checked over by an engineer?

When DH first moved in, over 10 years ago and that was when he found out that it's so old that it can't be serviced or repaired. DH does check it regularly and cleans around it to make sure the flame is always burning blue - but still, I do agree that it should be replaced asap.

I don't know what to think of MIL right now. It's possible, probable even she started off with good intentions and really did buy this house for DH, but now it feels like she doesn't want to sell but keeps dangling the promise of selling in front of us to keep us living here. We are doing her a sodding favour by being here.

Move out. Tell her you're going to do this.

If she wants to rent it to someone else she'll have to get the boiler changed, she'll have to do any other work the house needs and perhaps she'll be at that point more interested in talking to you about taking it on.

BTW - she might not have actually remortgaged this house, it could be that she's used the equity in it to secure against any of her other properties. (So if she defaults on one of those, as well as having that repossessed, your house would also be repossessed if the other house value didn't cover the debt) This doesn't mean the debt on your house has increased, but she might need to remortgage the other one if she has done this if she sells to you.

Get your boiler checked - tell her to do it. She's a landlord, she has too. I'd try to get it done now, because if they do cut it off, at least it's in the summer when you don't need the heat while it's replaced. (which she'll have to pay for).

For the convinence, don't risk your DCs health - the flame doesn't have to be yellow for it to be a danger to them. We own our house, we've been in it nearly 3 years and we've had the boiler serviced twice.

The biggest issue here is the boiler. It is highly dangerous to never have it checked. She is neglecting her responsibilities as a landlord. Does she not care about her Grandchildren. Did it not make her sit up and take notice when those kids died abroad due to carbdon monoxide poisoning a couple of years ago?

Move out, either to rented or to a cheap property you can afford to buy and do up over time. It is not safe to remain where you are and she is taking the piss. You are funding her lifestyle which is wrong when she is neglecting her landlord duties.

I would just move out. Then neither the house, nor the bad landlord will be your problem any more.

You must not get your names added to the mortgage, and if I were you, I would not get my name on the deeds, without knowing the financial situation of the house, how big the mortgage is, the monthly payments, whether it is interest only or a repayment mortgage, and the actual value of the house today. You can go ahead and get an estate agent in to value the house anyway....

I think your mil is milking you for what it is worth, and that you will be stitched up dramatically by holding her to honoring the agreement of letting your dp buy the house.