to be a little suspicious of landlord MIL.

[SmellsLikeTeenStrop]

Sorry, this is long.

DH and I rent from my MIL. She bought the house for DH before we met and there was always the understanding that when he had a steady income that would enable him to take on a mortgage she would let him buy the house at the same price she paid for it.

This was over 10 years ago, DH and I live here with our DCs and we're now in a position where we can buy the house, but now the plan seems to have changed. MIL is very cagey when we try and talk to her about buying the house. In the past she's said she'll 'be fair' when it comes to selling the house, but she's also said that for various reasons it would be impossible to sell the house to us for anything less than full market value. We've been told that the rent barely covers the mortgage and insurance, but we've also been told that she relies on our rent as her main source of income.

The last discussion we had she was pushing towards us not buying the house but instead having our names added to the mortgage and taking over the mortgage payments. I asked her how much the mortgage was and she claimed not to remember.

She's not been the best landlord in the world, she's made no effort to update the house at all. We can't have the boiler serviced because it's so old there are no parts available for it - but she can't replace the boiler as she has no money. The house is in massive need of updating, the kitchen is at least 30 years old, ditto the bathroom. The windows we're fighting a losing battle with, we sand them down and paint them every other year but they're deteriorating more and more.

For a house we're merely renting, it's not suitable for us any more. We're expecting another DC soon and we're a bit squished as it is. If we owned the house DH and I would hang on here a bit longer to improve the house and hopefully get it to a point where we can sell it on at market value and use the equity for a bigger home. Alternatively we could extend and/or add a loft conversion. MIL is aware that this is what we want to do and has said that this would be fine, but that was when we weren't in a position where we could actually buy the house.

If she won't sell us this house than the only real alternative is for us to move out. I won't hang on renting a house that is too small for us, especially with all the issues we're having with it. Us moving out would either force MIL to sell, or to invest a few thousand in to the property before she could get new tenants in. Given the amount of work the house needs, I can't imagine it would sell very quickly unless she sold it very cheaply.

So, after this huge wall of text. AIBU to be suspicious of MIL and WIBU to expect her to honour the promise she made to DH but if that really is impossible for her, to give us a mahoosive discount to take in to account the years of rental we've been paying, plus the huge amount of money we'll need to invest in the house?

you don't need to go the HSE, your local council housing department will do, they are most interested in rogue landlords. which is what your MIL is.

www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm

What if I break the regulations?
You are putting lives at risk and breaking the law. HSE gives gas safety a high priority and will take the appropriate action to ensure compliance with the regulations; this could result in a substantial fine and/or a custodial sentence.

Though I image a notice to do the work would come first.

You could try the local council as NellyJob suggest - they would at least be able to offer you some good advice.

Do you or have you signed a tenacy agreement with your MIL?

How do you pay rent? Is it recored?

If you report her could she make you homeless?

I'd be more inclined to hold it over her head than to report her until the boiler was replaced, and then I might well reconsider.

I'm reading through Rogue Landlord Watch and it seems that the first course of action is an improvement notice and failure to comply with that results in in the landlord being prosecuted.

I doubt we'd get to that stage tbh, if crying fails to work she'll get the work done.

"if crying fails to work"
The crying really is that tactical, huh? Does it work with your DH? (It sounds as if it doesn't work on you, well done!)

Do you or have you signed a tenacy agreement with your MIL?

yes

How do you pay rent? Is it recored?

cheque, would a bank statement class as a record?

If you report her could she make you homeless?

If she evicted us we could probably find a new rental home without too much difficulty. I doubt she would though especially if there is negative equity or very little equity on the house.

WhereYouLeftIt, reporting her would be the option if she refused to have the boiler replaced.

Seeing MIL in action is believing and yes it does work on DH. He's quite distraught at the minute and he just doesn't want to believe that his mum might not be the sweet, loving, sacrificial creature she presents herself as.

I was chatting earlier to him, about the idea of us paying for the boiler and he was repeating how she struggles financially etc. Then I thought hang on. Over the past ten years she's had numerous holidays abroad, she' had her sodding patio redesigned to look like one of the places she went to on holiday. Most recently her garage roof started leaking and she had folk out straight away to repair it. The roof had to be completely replaced on it, not a cheap job. I did tell DH this and his reaction was . Neither of us are inclined to offer to pay for the job now.

You are in a strong position. She cannot legally let this house to anyone. You and her only possible source of rent for this property. She really is going to have to comply, or suffer the consequences (financial and familial).

" Neither of us are inclined to offer to pay for the job now."
Oh, good!

Can you get your husband to read this? Plenty of wise, shocked people are giving sensible information. I particularly like the phrase "I have never heard of a tenant lending money to the landlord."

Can you turn on the tears when she does? Lay on emotional guilt for her grandchildren's sake if that's the language she understands?

I think you must show her her legal requirements. And in the meantime start looking for another rental property. You wouldn't stand for this if you weren't related. Your lives are worth more than a vegetable patch.

How about you present it to MIL that you are doing her a huge favour by letting her replace the boiler before she gets reported to the council? Can you say that you were looking to get some quotes for a boiler service and they told you about the annual gas check law , and as it turns out she can be prosecuted so you are giving her the heads up to replace it before she ends up in court ?

You need to get it sorted urgently , especially if you plan to stay. The first engineer to look at it will condemn it , leaving you with no heating or hot water.

Let's be clear about this boiler thing, and I'm speaking from experience here.
If the existing boiler is that old, it's not a question of just replacing one box with another. The modern boilers work in a different way to ones that age. It will mean quite a bit of re-plumbing and disruption to the house.

The whole system will need flushing out and de-scaling. In the one I was involved with, the de-scaling chemicals exposed leaks in the radiators and they all had to be replaced.

The new boiler will need re-wiring, and if the house wiring is very old that might not be possible without a complete re-wire of the house. Is your main switch-fuse unit very old, with wire fuses? If so it will definitely mean a complete re-wire of the house.

Unless you have a full house survey done properly before any work is started, you may find that these problems only come to light when the work is under way. So then you have a new boiler fitted but not working, while you look for more money to do an ever-increasing amount of work.

To do this job properly with registered plumbers and electricians, it will be a five-figure bill to bring the house up to proper safe standards. If you were foolish enough to buy the house, that is what you would have to pay.

In your position I would be looking to buy or rent somewhere else right now, and if that wasn't possible I would find a short-term rent for a month or two while the house was stripped and refitted. Naturally you would not expect to be paying rent to your landlord while it was done.

Your MIL has been taking rent from you for years, and should be using some of this to maintain the house. If she has spent or reinvested that money instead, she has taken risks with all your lives as well as breaking the law. You have been lucky so far - don't push your luck any more.

Your DH's loyalty should be to you and your children, and not to his deceitful mother who has let him and you down. He should not be making excuses for her.

Actually Sallying makes some extremely valid points there. There's also every chance that the older gas supply pipes would have to be changed for new wider ones, which means pulling up floorboards all through your house.

Staying in the house is not a viable option.

If the boiler is left unchecked, it is not overstating the case to say that you could all end up dead from CO poisoning.

If it is replaced, it is likely to mean months of upheaval to bring the rest of the CH system up to speed.

If you decide to buy the house, you and MIL need to bear in mind that it may have dropped in value due to the recession, and the state if repair has definitely deteriorated considerably, and may cost thousands of pounds to put right. Banks might well not lend you the full amount until you can prove that certain urgent repairs have been carried out.

Sallying has made some very valid points. I'm glad you posted that sallying.

I'd say it's a given that the house has dropped in value. I've looked at zoopla and houses sold in 2006/2007 were selling for rather a lot more than houses sold from 2009 up until recently.

Sallying I'm comfortable that DH's loyalty is to us and our kids and not to his mum. He's actually blaming himself for being so naive and trusting. He thinks he's put us in this situation. I'm not blaming DH, I think we've been took for a ride by a clever and manipulative woman.

Since she bought the house 10 years ago she's probably spent maybe £1000 on the house, she's given us the money to paint the windows (,we had to supply the fucking labour!) and she replaced the front door. She didn't do a thing to the house before DH moved in and it had been old student accommodation.

In contrast, I remember when she got her other buy-to-let house, it was a mess . The previous owners were amateur DIY people and they were really bad at it, half finished crappy workmanship everywhere. She spent a huge amount of time and money getting that house in to a good condition. She re-landscaped the garden, repainted throughout, new flooring and carpets. I think she even re-placed the main bathroom suite.

We've been made to feel like we're benefiting from her charity, and that we should be grateful to her for letting us stay in this house that she nicely bought for our benefit (well DHs really as she didn't know me at the time). For years she's said things like she bought this house for us, she doesn't consider it hers, it's our family home. It's BS, she's been using this house as a cash-cow to fund her other projects and we've very nicely kept on living here, making sure the mortgage is being paid. She probably said all those things to convince herself that she doesn't need to invest in this house because in some mysterious way this house is really ours even though we have a tenancy agreement and when it's convenient to her (e.g, when she wants to put the rent up) she remembers she owns this house and she is our landlord. I feel the rage building.

I'm glad I started this thread, it's been good to get other peoples perspectives and I don't think many of the things said here would have occurred to me if I'd been mulling this over on my own or with DH. Plus it's kind of cathartic to get my thoughts out, I can't really vent to DH because he takes my anger as anger against him. I'm not angry at him, I'm angry at his mother and I'm angry at the situation we're in.

Have you been to see a mortgage advisor? And checked out housing associaton and private rental possibilities. You need to know what your options are.

I rented privately for 15 years. No landlord ever increased our rent. One explained that she never would - the cost, hassle and risk of new tenants is too high.

This will cause a falling out with your manipulative MIL. People like her convince themselves that they are justified. In the long run, she will respect you more.

It must be very difficult for your DH. His mother has clearly been taking advantage of his natural loyalty, with the tears and everything. It shows the two of you have a strong relationship and I'm sure you will get it sorted together.
She isn't going to like it though.

holeyghost, I haven't spoken to a mortgage adviser, I'm going to wait until after the baby is here to do that - probably during DHs paternity leave. Also the kids will be back at school then. I've looked at private rental properties, houses that are up for sale now. I'm signed up for email alerts if any more rental properties come up.

I've got a couple of friends who rent privately and their landlords have never increased rent. Last time MIL increased our rent, she informed us that we should be having a rent increase every year .... she hasn't increased it every year, we've had 2 over the 8 years I've lived here. I don't know if she increased it before I moved in.

DH has spoken to his mum and asked her to come over to discuss the house and the boiler.

Expect fireworks or waterworks :(

But worth it in the long run.

Some building societies have online mortgage calculators that will give you an idea of how much you could borrow, and at what rate e.g.

www.halifax.co.uk/mortgages/forms/minicalc/container.asp

Good luck with her visit. Remain unmoved if there are tears!

Keep us posted.

Good luck, SmellsLikeTeenStrop. Stand fast.

I hope it goes well, too. Could you get some scary print-outs about unmaintained boilers which blew up, or seeped carbon monoxide to show her? To give her the benefit of the doubt, lots of people don't take expensive safety precautions seriously, and just think it's expensive bureaucratic nonsense. She probably genuinely doesn't believe it's a risk to you all because that's what's most convenient. If you can just apply a metaphorical scouring pad to that mental coating of It's-Not-Necessary-To-Buy-One-Of-Those, maybe everything will turn out all right!

There's Katie Haines. She died from CO poisoning from a faulty boiler. Apparently 50 people die from CO poisoning every year in the UK.

We'll be meeting with MIL over the weekend, exact day to still be confirmed.

I am generally unmoved by MILs tears SundaeGirl, I like a good bawl as well as the next person but it's so obvious that MIL uses crying as a way of control.

I'll definitely update after we've met with her.

Also remember what an earlier poster said about what might be involved with remodeling. You could be opening up a can of worms. You know the windows, boiler and kitchen need replacing. I think you should get out and leave her to it. If you buy, it will be inspected. S/he will check roof condition, water pressure, drainage away from house, wiring, termites, water heater, and pages of other things.