to be a little suspicious of landlord MIL.

[SmellsLikeTeenStrop]

Sorry, this is long.

DH and I rent from my MIL. She bought the house for DH before we met and there was always the understanding that when he had a steady income that would enable him to take on a mortgage she would let him buy the house at the same price she paid for it.

This was over 10 years ago, DH and I live here with our DCs and we're now in a position where we can buy the house, but now the plan seems to have changed. MIL is very cagey when we try and talk to her about buying the house. In the past she's said she'll 'be fair' when it comes to selling the house, but she's also said that for various reasons it would be impossible to sell the house to us for anything less than full market value. We've been told that the rent barely covers the mortgage and insurance, but we've also been told that she relies on our rent as her main source of income.

The last discussion we had she was pushing towards us not buying the house but instead having our names added to the mortgage and taking over the mortgage payments. I asked her how much the mortgage was and she claimed not to remember.

She's not been the best landlord in the world, she's made no effort to update the house at all. We can't have the boiler serviced because it's so old there are no parts available for it - but she can't replace the boiler as she has no money. The house is in massive need of updating, the kitchen is at least 30 years old, ditto the bathroom. The windows we're fighting a losing battle with, we sand them down and paint them every other year but they're deteriorating more and more.

For a house we're merely renting, it's not suitable for us any more. We're expecting another DC soon and we're a bit squished as it is. If we owned the house DH and I would hang on here a bit longer to improve the house and hopefully get it to a point where we can sell it on at market value and use the equity for a bigger home. Alternatively we could extend and/or add a loft conversion. MIL is aware that this is what we want to do and has said that this would be fine, but that was when we weren't in a position where we could actually buy the house.

If she won't sell us this house than the only real alternative is for us to move out. I won't hang on renting a house that is too small for us, especially with all the issues we're having with it. Us moving out would either force MIL to sell, or to invest a few thousand in to the property before she could get new tenants in. Given the amount of work the house needs, I can't imagine it would sell very quickly unless she sold it very cheaply.

So, after this huge wall of text. AIBU to be suspicious of MIL and WIBU to expect her to honour the promise she made to DH but if that really is impossible for her, to give us a mahoosive discount to take in to account the years of rental we've been paying, plus the huge amount of money we'll need to invest in the house?

" The house we live in isn't her only investment property"
Wow, that puts it in a whole different light! I was working on the assumption of a woman who had a plan ten years ago, whose circumstances had changed over that ten years and she was now trying to save face. But no, she's a landlord by trade who experiments with being a slum landlord with her own family!

You are right, you ARE doing her a favour by living there. If it were anyone else, she'd have HAD to have spent money replacing the boiler long since. She is just taking the piss here.

Right now I would treat the boiler as the priority. You are just going to have to INSIST that it be done IMMEDIATELY. She is breaking the law and, more to the point, endangering you all.

"She's one of those who breaks down in to tears and tells you how much she loves you and how everything she does is for your benefit and she only wants the best for you."
In other words, manipulative. Good, you can use that. Tell her that it is best for you all not to be poisoned by carbon monoxide, and that she really has to get this done pronto or you are going to have to move out, you are not prepared to endanger her grandchildren any longer. Repeat, repeat, repeat. And yes, drop into the mix that when you leave then she's going to have to spend a lot of money on the place if she wants to re-let it.

She is a landlord, a landlord of several properties. She must know her legal responsibilities, and to shirk those responsibilities to her own family is beyond shocking.

Ten years? Move.

If she actually truly agreed that the boiler needed to be replaced, she would have done it by now. She's had ten years' grace to save up for it from the rent you pay. She's not going to do it without substantial pressure.

It's possible she doesn't know about her legal obligations, but given she uses an agency for other properties, and given that CO poisoning is in the news quite frequently, I'd diagnose a bad case of it'll-never-happen-to-me-itis!

Oh, and legal obligations are actually irrelevant, oddly. If I was renting a house to anyone, never mind my son, DIL and grandchildren, I would replace a boiler that couldn't be serviced. Not because of the law. Because I'm a decent human being.

Don't you dare spend any money on the boiler! Beyond emergency repairs, I mean. If you put your hand in your pocket to pay for that, she'll know she can just deny responsibility for any other issues that crop up and you'll eventually deal with the financial implications.

Seriously, I think you should go and book and appointment and see what the lay of land is with getting a mortgage and a place of your own. OK, so she let you dig up the front garden, but you could do that with your own house.

Don't be staying there out of a misplayed sense of loyalty or thinking she's going to stick to her word eventually. Not going to happen.

Please think of everything that is going in in terms of a buisness...

I rent out the house I purchased before I met DH and I had to do repairs/improvements plus a new boiler that wiped out 2 years profit I might see from the place. It had to be done though. And I do this for people I've never met. The yearly boiler check is a legal obligation too, old boilers are dangerous.

I would be very careful about getting involved with the mortgage she has. If she's taken money out and spent it then it was a business decision. Would you have gifted her that money to spend? If you pay off the debt then you might as well have. If you pay rent you have done your side of the business transaction and do not owe her anything. If the house is in negative equity at the moment you might pay off more than you could ever get back from its sale.

If you do want to live there you might be better off to take on your own debt for it and get the deeds too.

The first thing you need to do is contact someone to get the boiler checked and stress to your MIL how serious that is. Without those certificates the property is not habitable.

I would be onto rightmove/local agents today and looking for somewhere else to rent in your area, and handing my notice in.

If she turns the waterworks it's purely out of pity for herself that she won't have her own family bank rolling her shody and illegal dealings.

Something else to consider - you say she's remortgaged at least once (that you know of); none of that money was spent replacing the windows, boiler or anything else that desperately needed upgrading, even though she obviously knows that it needs doing.

She's taking you for a ride.

Let me get this straight:

Your MIL loves you all so much that she's prepared to swindle you in order to fund her lifestyle. Her idea of what is best for you is to risk killing you all with a dodgy boiler.

My God! Her generous spirit just shines on through, doesn't it?

If allowing your DH to dig a vegetable patch is the best she can offer as a landlady...

Tell her you want to buy the house and will make her an offer, now and now only. And if she still says no then start looking. And tell her that she is legally obliged to sort out the boiler, whether you stay in the house or not. The next family to rent it wouldn't stand for this kind of treatment.

You know if you were so inclined you could just buy one of those sticker carbon monoxide detectors, colour it in with a marker pen, call her and say 'this boiler is leaking carbon monoxide'.

Then you have a cast iron alibi for moving out immediately and cutting off this grasping woman.

I know your DH doesn't want confrontation but I bet he doesn't want to have to attend his kids funeral either. :( You have to do something about this.

Oh and FWIW - we had a gas leak from a boiler a few months ago - an ongoing saga with a new boiler and we had blue flame, nothing to indicate a leak, and the carbon monoxide detector - in the next room had not sounded - apparently by the time it's at a level where the detector goes off, it's really dangerous and slow gas leaks don't poison you, just blow your house up!

do you have gas and electric safety certificates?
if not then it is illegal for her to be renting u this house.
especially gas for the sake of your kids.
if she cannot afford a new boiler, then you get one,and a safety cert and take it off the rent.

So no gas certificate - the corgi man comes and test the appliances - doesn't do any service or anything esle - so your MIL could be prosecuted

The family round the corner went to sleep and never woke up, the boiler was faulty and pumping out CM

that was 20 years ago

I can't tell you how important it is to sort the boiler TOMORROW. It could kill you.

We've now got a carbon monoxide detector, it starts detecting from fifty ppm, well below the level of CO that can kill you, also according to the instructions it's supposed to go in the same room as the fuel burning appliance,jimmenycricket.

We're not in a position to move out in the next few weeks, we're going to be here for a few months at least so our first priority will be getting the boiler sorted. DH is going to talk to MIL and arrange a time to meet up with her so we can discuss this face to face.

DH suggested that if MIL really can't afford to replace it, we pay for it but request a reduction in rent until we've recouped the amount back. She doesn't have to say yes but I don't see that she's in a position where she can say no. After all, she's the one who has broken the law. Thoughts?

I think you are making a big mistake to get involved with replacing the boiler.
It's her responsibility and should come out of the rent you are paying her.
You should be thinking of ways to get out of this house, not tying yourselves closer to it.

This is the first time I have ever heard of a tenant lending money to their landlord for maintain the property! Your DH cannot/should not be serious.

Well, if she knows you can't move then you're a bit scuppered! Really, moving out is your trump card and she knows you can't play it. No wonder she's being a lax landlord.

Bluntly, you and your DH have to take some responsibility. Either you are being a bit naive or lazy - move out! The house doesn't work for you so you'll need to find somewhere else. Yes, she said she'd help DH and no, she hasn't. It would have been nice but it hasn't worked out. Now take control of your own situation and find somewhere you can afford that you would like. The saving for a deposit thing is a side issue if you're in a good rental.

replace the boiler and get a gas certificate and withhold that amount in rent.
no discussion.

I have spent a great deal of time thinking about the practicalities moving and looking at houses, but the reality is that we are going to be here for a few more months minimum and that boiler needs replaced.

At your dh for thinking that it is YOUR responsibility to fund the boiler replacement. It is going to cost nearly 2k!

I am a landlord. Last year I had to fork out 6k to rewire the house. I had to. The shower stopped working (electric) and a repairman was called in. He discovered that we had to rewire the house. We did it, because we wanted our tenants to be safe. We have also been paying several hundred pounds per year in gas safety certificate. It is the law! I cannot believe that your mother in law is such a piss taker that she neglects safety to line her pockets.

"DH suggested that if MIL really can't afford to replace it, we pay for it but request a reduction in rent until we've recouped the amount back. She doesn't have to say yes but I don't see that she's in a position where she can say no. After all, she's the one who has broken the law. Thoughts?"
Your DH is being far too generous. His mother has broken the law and placed his/your family at risk. This was a CHOICE on her part, it didn't happen accidentally. I don't think you should "request" a reduction in rent. You should demand that no rent is payable until the house is brought up to habitable, legal standard. She's done this to you for TEN YEARS. No more.

www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqtenant.htm

"By law landlords must carry out an annual gas safety check and provide tenants with a copy of the record of that check. New tenants should receive a copy before they move in and existing tenants should get a copy within 28 days of the annual check being done. If you don't have a current gas safety record you can report to HSE via form LGSR1."

I'd look at this page - as she is your landlady she had legal duties - if she is not doing them I would suggest for your DC safety you treat her as a landlord and report.

I really don't think you have a chance of buying the house at less than market rate - so I'd look at moving and buying elsewhere if possible.

As for replacing the boiler - it an option but would take money you could use as a deposit renting somewhere much better and I really doubt you'd ever see the money again - unless you paid less rent.

If she got upset I'd get very upset back and say she's put her own DC and DGC at unnecessary risk - and frankly that is unforgivable.

My thoughts
This woman is in business - she is breaking the law.

The landlady needs to get a gas certificate and if one isn't forthcoming within 7 days then you either live with the consequences or you report her to the appropriate department to be delt with.

What are the consequences for landlords if they're reported to the HSE and found guilty?