To think that no one will ever vote conservative again

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

At least in anyone in living memory of the current government and their immoral targeting of the most vulnerable members of society.
I voted conservative at the last election to my eternal shame, I won't make the same mistake twice.

The fact of the matter is even if Thatcher did set out to weaken the unions that's hardly a criticism.

They were crippling the country and were not prepared to negotiate or come up with a constructive plan.

And they haven't changed. Some of Len Mccluskey's comments in the last year have been disgraceful.

For people who support the unions, it clearly is a criticism.

If it weren't for unions, we'd have very few rights as workers, or would have taken longer to have them put in place. I would never say the unions are perfect and aren't sometimes out of line, but for many people, they are the source of a lot of good.

yellowraincoat

flatpackhamster Yes, I would have been prepared to pay 50%, that would definitely have been something that would have happened.

You'd be prepared to pay half your family's earnings to keep the miners? OK, fair enough, that's your money. Now explain to me why everyone should have to fund that welfare programme.

It's a ridiculous thing to say, flatbackhamster, because they would never tax 50% to fund ONE thing.

I don't have the time or patience to explain why welfare is considered, to a greater or lesser degree, to be a good thing in every single civil society in the world. I'm sure you can use google.

I've been affected by changes made by the tories to the detriment of our household income amongst other things, but where is the viable alternative?

Len McCluskey is a dick. And so is Bob Crowe. I cringe when I see them on TV because they never, ever have a good argument.

Unions can be good things, they can also be greedy and unreasonable too...

yellowraincoat Sat 11-Aug-12 09:54:20
bp300, no, Labour didn't "cause" the recession.

The global financial crisis "caused" the recession (if you want to make it that simplistic that you think ONE thing "caused" the recession. Given you clearly have no idea about how an economy works, you probably do think that. My friend who is a financial journalist at one of the broadsheets is sitting here laughing at your post.)
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This isn't my view it is fact. Eddy George the previous governor of the Bank of England admitted that it was deliberate government policy to inflate the housing bubble by leaving interest rates too low in order to avoid a previous recession. Numerous books such and websites predicted the financial crisis years in advance because they could see the mistakes the government was making. Other countries made the same mistakes as we did but that is no excuse for doing the wrong thing just because lots of other countries did.

yellowraincoat

It's a ridiculous thing to say, flatbackhamster, because they would never tax 50% to fund ONE thing.

I was asking how much you thought your miner chums were worth.

I don't have the time or patience to explain why welfare is considered, to a greater or lesser degree, to be a good thing in every single civil society in the world. I'm sure you can use google.

What's this about welfare? We're talking about subsidising coal miners in order to keep them in work. Since when did subsidising loss-making industries become part of welfare?

UKIP.

Used to work for Tories. Give up. A vast amount of young Tories have gone to UKIP but sadly gives a far bigger chance of a leftist government :(

"your miner chums" - grow up, if you can't have a reasoned political debate, without acting like a child, just don't bother.

bp300 - it is not "fact" that Labour caused the recession. There are millions of theories, if you understood anything about the economy you'd realise it's never that simple.

Of COURSE Labour made mistakes. All governments make mistakes. Whether the Tories would have done any better is highly unlikely.

yellowraincoat

"your miner chums" - grow up, if you can't have a reasoned political debate, without acting like a child, just don't bother.

Where's the reasoned debate? I'm trying to get you to tell me how much of other people's money the miners deserved, and you're ducking the question.

So, I'll ask again - since when did subsidising loss-making industries become part of welfare?

Perhaps I misread your statement. It wasn't very well worded. When you say "that welfare programme" are you referring to the miners?

Economies are not as simple as "this isn't making money, let's get rid of it." Economies aren't even as simple as "this will never make money, let's get rid of it." Not everyone is concerned with making money, because some people also worry about the social costs of things.

I'm not dodging your question. It is a stupid question. How much of my family's money would I spend? I don't have a family for a start so why try to sentimentalise a question by suggesting we'd be taking a family's money? How much of mine would I spend? More than I would spend on stuff like the royal family, that's for sure.

I have no clue whether the coal mines could have been kept open.

However, it's my impression that as yellowraincoat says we are very much having to support those people who now live in parts of the country where generations of people haven't worked since the 1980's.

It's no coincidence that it's the places where there was once heavy industry and mining that now have the highest unemployment (Wales, NE England etc.)

It could be that these people are just not hard-working enough and are somehow endemically lazy. That's what the Tories would have you believe, because of course, anyone can do anything as long as they work hard. It seems a little bit of a coincidence though, doesn't it? And a little bit of a stretch that whole areas of people are all just lazy.

I agree, yellowraincoat.

i don't think you could fail to notice 13 years of labour government has not changed that yellow

I don't think I said it had, did I, Edgar?

So why make cheerleading comments that completely ignore half the picture?

If everyone was more honest about responsibility this and less blinkered and came out with less "well they started it" level childish nonsense we'd all be better off.

If you insist on reducing your politics to tribal idiocy rather than policy based on merit in individual subjects, then you really are part of a massive problem rather than actually trying to address national problems and issues.

I'm hardly a huge Labour supporter so tribalism doesn't really come into it.

The difference is that at least Labour want to do something about the problem. They brought in Working Tax Credits and a minimum wage which made it more feasible for people to go back to work.

Did Labour do a perfect job? Obviously not, I am deeply pissed off with a lot of the stuff they did, pissed off that the working classes are so badly represented in Parliament. But at least they have something along the right idea, rather than just this stupid ideology that says if you work hard, you'll achieve.