To think that no one will ever vote conservative again

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

At least in anyone in living memory of the current government and their immoral targeting of the most vulnerable members of society.
I voted conservative at the last election to my eternal shame, I won't make the same mistake twice.

sparks who are you to say that future doesn't exist? Do you have a crystal ball? Are you saying these people won't ever achieve anything, despite receiving an education? Why is that?

Because it clearly doesn't does it?

Record numbers of graduates are unemployed or in non graduate positions. That's not my opinion it's fact. They were sold a pup..

I just hope the eloctorate here sees what's going on across the Channel, where a Socialist simpleton (Hollande) has been elected.

They're seeing factory closures and the employing of tens of thousands more public sector workers which they can't afford. It will make the idiot's stay in power a very short but eventful one I imagine.

I just cannot contemplate Labour in power here after the utter fuck up they made last time.

So who's employing our unemployed then?

bUt we are trying to point out that lots of people who received EMA were not doing A-levels to lead to university.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand.

sparks Record numbers of graduates are unemployed or in non graduate positions. That's not my opinion it's fact. They were sold a pup

I feel we're going around and around in circles here... there are record numbers of unemployed graduates because of rubbish austerity policies the government fail to acknowledge are prolonging the recession.

Our point sparks is that EMA wasn't a waste. It was a small contribution towards encouraging a group of people to go to college who wouldn't in a million years have done so otherwise. How is that a waste?

A small contribution?

I suggest you ask a basic rate tax payer if they thought it constituted that.

And as i've stated, no one has ever proven it did motivate that section of people.

Has anyone proved it didnt??

sparks I'm a basic tax payer, and I was happy to pay it. Sorry to burst that bubble for you.

I am also a Basic rate tax payer, as is DH.

We are happy for it.

I was happy to pay it.

I feel we're going around and around in circles here... there are record numbers of unemployed graduates because of rubbish austerity policies the government fail to acknowledge are prolonging the recession.

This was the case before the austerity policies.

I well remember a graduate being incandescent that he couldn't command a 30K a year salary and be in charge of people.

The well respected company who were looking to employ wanted him on a well managed graduate course that taught from their base business up. That meant graft. He wasn't interested.

It's entitlement.

So 1 graduate who was abit arrogant has clouded your judgement of all graduates.

I left university 25 years ago and I felt exactly the same. I thought I'd walk in to a highly paid post grad job. That's what every 21 year old thinks regardless of background. It's called the ignorance of youth, or naivety if you're being kind.

All young people feel entitled. It's not a new thing.

sparks I'm a basic tax payer, and I was happy to pay it. Sorry to burst that bubble for you.

Of course you were. Because for a couple of pence on your tax you would be getting pounds in return.

And that's the point. It's the general populace paying not just you.

sparks1 I'm not sure you understand the meaning of bankrupt, let alone anything more complex than that. I find most Tory voters rarely do.

flatbackhamster if you classify "morally abhorrent" as abuse, you need to get out more, you really do. Oh and buy a dictionary.

I literally find people who vote Tory morally abhorrent. Now I could sit here and lie and say "a wee bit nasty" or "a tiny bit silly" or "not really my cup of tea" but it wouldn't be true. That is not abusive. It is an opinion.

And also, let's face it, do you think it's just coincidence that people from the middle classes do well? Oh I suppose it's all their hard work! Oh yes! All that hard work they do compared to the lazy working classes!

I would roll my eyes at you people, but I was told that if I didn't stop doing it my ocular nerves would seize up.

The Conservatives have done a good job considering the state Labour left the country in when they got in power. If anything they should be imposing more cut because we are still spending far too much and running at a huge defecit but the problem is that no-one will vote for a politician who will do the right thing because the voters are too selfish and only care about themselves and is is why Labour lasted so long bribing the electorate with benefits and tax credits etc.

Why are people who vote Tory "morally abhorrent"?

sparks "Of course you were. Because for a couple of pence on your tax you would be getting pounds in return.

And that's the point. It's the general populace paying not just you."

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I didn't get anything back because there was no such thing as EMA when I was in education. The reason why I'm happy to pay for things that support and encourage social mobility is because first and foremost society benefits from increased education across the board. And I'm all for improving the society we live in. Secondly social mobility is a huge indicator for GDP growth. Right now we have the lowest social mobility since before the war.

You want to see this countries finances improving? The economy flourishing? Then do something about social mobility. The way I see it you don't improve social mobility by reducing access to education for the poorest.

Ema also helps pay for those children who's families are on benefits or low incomes go to college and learn a trade. It pays for some of the tools needed, which can add up to hundreds of pounds, not just transport.

Entitled bastards, fancy wanting to go to college to become a plumber, gas engineer or electrician.

headfairy Fri 10-Aug-12 00:03:18
sparks "Of course you were. Because for a couple of pence on your tax you would be getting pounds in return.

And that's the point. It's the general populace paying not just you."

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I didn't get anything back because there was no such thing as EMA when I was in education. The reason why I'm happy to pay for things that support and encourage social mobility is because first and foremost society benefits from increased education across the board. And I'm all for improving the society we live in. Secondly social mobility is a huge indicator for GDP growth. Right now we have the lowest social mobility since before the war.

You want to see this countries finances improving? The economy flourishing? Then do something about social mobility. The way I see it you don't improve social mobility by reducing access to education for the poorest.
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Disagree, qualifications are like money. If if you print more money the money thats already in cirulation devalues just as if you have more people with degrees etc they become worth less. What we need is to vastly reduce the number of colleges and universities which will help with our budget defecit and what we need is to increase manufacturing jobs that have been exported to China over the last decade.

But Bp as we've stated numerous times EMA wasn't just about paying for kids to do degrees, it also helped support young people through vocational training, the very training you're advocating. That money made it possible for them to attend college.

I dont know the figures, but I would think that a higher percentage of people who claimed EMA were children that would not have taken the more traditional A-level route.

*Of course you were. Because for a couple of pence on your tax you would be getting pounds in return.

And that's the point. It's the general populace paying not just you.*

I dont quite get what you mean - I never claimed EMA and my children are not old enough to have claimed it.

Institute of Fiscal Studies says that EMA was cost effective