To think that no one will ever vote conservative again

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

At least in anyone in living memory of the current government and their immoral targeting of the most vulnerable members of society.
I voted conservative at the last election to my eternal shame, I won't make the same mistake twice.

I don't think Conservative will get a majority next time - they didn't manage it the first time. They have pissed off so many people already. Plus David Cameron is not popular.

There will be people who always vote for them though - people who only see things from their own pov. But the swing voters are the ones who make the biggest difference. I'll be very surprised if they get in next time. But if Labour were to get in I doubt they will reverse the damage they have done.

Novack - I think you are wrong about nobody denying the vulnerable benefits. There are plenty of bitter, angry people who would be more than happy if the unemployed and the disabled in need of support were left to starve. Some of them even post on MN sometimes.

Means testing sounds sensible but when you crunch the figures, it's clear that it often costs more in administration than it saves. Universal benefits like child benefit (until the present government got their hands on it) are really straightforward to administer. Means testing is complex, costs shedloads in admin, and also penalises those with poor literacy and poor skills who find it hardest to cope with a whole host of complex forms, often providing the same information in 20 different ways to 10 different agencies and departments.

One thing I've never really been able to find much information on is the idea of a flat rate of tax. The theory is that everyone pays say 22% tax. The threshold at which tax starts is higher, say £15000 to overcome the fact that those on lower incomes will lose their 10% rate. I think the understanding is that being easier to manage it saves administration costs and as it's a flat rate there is much less avoidance (I do think it has to go hand in hand with a total clampdown on tax avoidance schemes).

Someone come and tell me the pros and cons of a scheme like that...

There will be people who always vote for them though - people who only see things from their own pov. But the swing voters are the ones who make the biggest difference. I'll be very surprised if they get in next time. But if Labour were to get in I doubt they will reverse the damage they have done

The damage who has done?

Seriously i'm gobsmacked. Are there actually grown adults in this country who can't grasp the concept that Labour is responsible for this shite state of affairs?

I accept people can disagree with Tory policies to reduce the deficit but to think that anyone other than Labour are responsible for the accumulation of that deficit is quite frankly ludicrous.

I have no problem with some people who vote Tory. In fact some are quite nice.
It's some of the posters on this thread that are morally abhorrent, not Tory voters per se.

Seriously i'm gobsmacked. Are there actually grown adults in this country who can't grasp the concept that Labour is responsible for this shite state of affairs

But Labour had to spend more money fixing the mess Thatcher left us in, im more gobsmacked you do not grasp the fact of that.

But Labour had to spend more money fixing the mess Thatcher left us in, im more gobsmacked you do not grasp the fact of that

And let's give them a round of applause on a job well done..

You do realise the Thatcher administration ended in 1990. And the complete mess the previous government had left the country in. Pattern forming maybe..?

The Major government ended in 1997 and left millions of people dying on NHS waiting lists, schools and hospitals crumbling, children being fed slop for their school dinners, the railways privatised and shit (at great expense to the passenger and taxpayer)...

I can't believe people can't grasp the concept of a global recession. It has fuck all to do with Labour really.

People who vote Labour are children who "hate" their parents for not giving them enough pocket money and not letting them eat ice cream every day. Whenever I hear someone going on about how they "hate the Tories" I know that I can write them off as someone whose opinion is of any value.

Denise did you know that the Tory party once had a slogan that read:
'if you want a n*er for a neighbour vote for liberal or labour'
That should be enough not to vote for them.
When I hear people vote Tory I think oh you think your daddy rightly got you where you are and that you do deserve better than everyone else, yeah poor kids do deserve to be abused for their parents not working 'hard enough'.
And I write them off as selfish, racist, sexist, elitist morons.

Krumbum, that was 40+ years ago, and from what I understand, it was one candidate, not something from Tory cenral office.

Plenty of people from humble backgrounds vote Tory. If it was just the wealthy elite voting Tory than they would never be in power.

Nothing is more selfish than what Labour did from 97-10, spending money they didn't have so that people would vote for them. Knowing that future generations would be saddled with all the debt.

Sorry I didn't realise that old racism is alright.
Yes lots of stupid people vote tory who have been suckered in by the elites attempts to divide and rule.
It's a GLOBAL financial crisis. It would have happened whoever was in power.

You don't think Labour has racism in it's past? The unions were notoriously racist until fairly recently.

The crisis would have happened anyway, but we could have been better prepared, rather than being a country that was running in deficit all through the boom years.

Divide and rule? Who the hell is being tribal and saying they "hate" the Tories?

yellowraincoat Sat 11-Aug-12 00:40:24
I can't believe people can't grasp the concept of a global recession. It has fuck all to do with Labour really.
_
So nothing to do with Labour government running a massive deficit for a decade by bribing voters with overpaid public sector job and generous benefits. Nothing today with Labour keeping interested rates too low and inflating a massive housing bubble which bankrupt the banks. Do you seriously not realise Labour caused the recession?

Well, we didn't vote for the conservatives this time. They don't have a majority.

I would be very unlikely to vote conservative but that isn't because of Cameron, it's because of Thatcher.

I think the current lot just don't have a clue. (Honestly - schools need more netball? I will credit Olympic success to a Conservative - John Major and the Lottery - but what is Cameron on with his Indian Dancing comments?)

However, the conservatives are still to the left of the American Democrats, so I would vote conservative if I could get over the Thatcher thing (unlikely), and they had no complete idiots as MP's (like that person who did the stupid multicultural tweets about the Olympics), and they had some policies that made sense. (OK, so if they were a different party, but I'm trying to be open minded here).

Denise34, have you ever thought about going into politics or maybe academia? Because your level of discourse is just stunningly high.

People who vote Labour didn't get ice cream, give me a fucking break. You're like a petulant little child who wants to point score, you just look pathetic when you say stuff like that.

We're in a far better position financially than a lot of other countries in the EU. The country isn't "bankrupt". Yes, we're not doing great financially, but that's because there is a global recession, there is really very little that we could have done to stop it affecting us too.

Germany are doing well because they are a manufacturing country. We are not, we export mainly financial services, which took a huge hit in the crisis. Maybe we'd have been doing better if we had more stuff to export. Oh but someone sold all of that off in the 70s/80s. Who was that again...

Germany have a benefits system comparable with ours, which people also whinge continually about, yet they are doing ok economically. It is so easy to sit here and blame people on benefits for our finanical problems and it is just ridiculous.

bp300, no, Labour didn't "cause" the recession.

The global financial crisis "caused" the recession (if you want to make it that simplistic that you think ONE thing "caused" the recession. Given you clearly have no idea about how an economy works, you probably do think that. My friend who is a financial journalist at one of the broadsheets is sitting here laughing at your post.)

I got as far as here-
"So nothing to do with Labour government running a massive deficit for a decade by bribing voters with overpaid public sector job and generous benefits".

and pissed myself.

Seriously? Which public sector jobs are 'overpaid'?

Sparks, come on. The tories are hell bent on dismantling the state to almost nothing whatever the state of the economy. It's their brand of politics.

I'm undecided on who to vote for at the next election, anyone who goes round talking about "Tory scum" needs to grow up.

oliup If that's what people feel, why shouldn't they voice it? Go up to Scotland, voice that opinion in any bar and see how far you get. The Tories fucked Scotland, it will be a long time before that is forgotten.

yellowcoat- Its incredibly puerile. All Governments be they Labour/Conservative/Liberal do good things and bad things, politicians are good people who are doing what they think is best interests of the country. Running the Government is a monumental task and it takes a lot of character to do it and to go around being an armchair critic just being abusive against them is very childish and suggests that you have very intellect.

How do you know people are armchair critics? I know plenty of people who are very politically involved who would call the Tories scum. It's not a word I choose to use, but I can see why people would.

"politicians are good people who are doing what they think is best interests of the country"

I don't even know where to begin with that, but politicians do what they think will get them re-elected and keep them in power.

YABU the logical position to be in at this time in the electoral cycle is undecided, we are currently midway through a Parliament so the Government has not enacted its full programme nor has the Opposition given any considerable details on what they would do. If anyone at this time says the current Government are brilliant or terrible then they are not being reasonable as we have only had half their term and so any evaluation is very premature.