I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

To be fair, I also grew up in a Northern European country for much of my childhood. And it is noticable in the UK that the prevailing attitude is that everyone is entitled to have everything they want now, on credit if necessary. No-one must be denied what they want, and if they suffer problems as a result, its not their fault. It is an attitude thing, and if you're not from the UK, it probably does seem quite odd to the majority of the world who don't.

OP, are you from Denmark?

'I had one child. Where can I get the 0.4 child that I am short of?'

Well, in some people's opinions, that would be children like my DS.
What with his SN and all. We don't deal with children with SN brilliantly in this country, but we do a hell of a lot better than many other European nations.

I agree with the OP. In Britain today there is a huge gaping childcare gap: state childcare is very patchy, private childcare is wildly expensive, extended family isn't culturally/legally responsible for help with childcare.

I live in a country with a low birth rate and it is a real issue, you can see how much they want new people by the huge amounts of money they put into immigration, families and fertility treatment. When you 1st move here you get free lessons in the native language, as a family you get 18 months paid parental leave, free daycare, free schools, free school food. If you are unlucky enough to suffer from infertility as we were you get 9 free IVF cycles.

I also come from a broken family (in the uk not the lovely European country.) My childhood was perfect in my opinion, I would call a broken family a family with a parent as bigoten and small minded as you OP.

I am interested in the cheap chicken thread
please could someone point me to it?

I've only got one whole one, but he's a teen now and will be leaving me soon .
I'd love to have a 0.7 one, far less responsibility.
Any offers?

I would like .4 of a child. I can never finish a whole one.

I'm paranoid this is aimed at me because I admiteed we barely have enough money to get through the month! We're not on any benefits apart from CB but things are so tight. DD's nursery is £800 p/m. I could have got a cheaper place for her but I didn't like the nurseries I viewed that were less expensive.

I do think we have a lot of problems with the benefit system though. I don't believe people have children to get benefits: it's more there's no incentive not to.

OP, are you from Denmark?

I am sure she is not from Denmark or her English would be better.

It's a choice. If someone wants chicken for dinner and cannot afford the free range stuff, why can they not buy the perfectly legal cheap chicken. Perhaps they don't want to buy lentils or sprouts. Why should there be a two tier food system, where only the people who are able to buy free range chicken are moral? Some people haven't the wherewithal to have animal welfare at the forefront of their mind.

WigGold - I'd buy a ticket but it'll take me 0.2 over my quota of children.

I think it's fairly obvious that the OP isn't demonizing everyone who has over 1.4 as long as you can afford them I don't understand the defensiveness.

My mother aborted for financial reasons, my father was not around at the time (child was conceived from one of their reconciliations)- and she realised that if it was just going to be her and 2 year old me, she wanted to make sure she could give me as best she could on the low wage she was earning and give me her full attention. Another child was something she simply could not afford.

15 years down the line, my parents are back together and have worked their way up to above average wages. They could have definitely afforded to have two children now. Does my mum regret it seeing how things turned out? Nope. It was painful for her at the time but it was the right thing for her to do for all of us.

My mum now works for social services, and her being a single parent for the best part of my childhood helps her emphasize with their experiences. Something she cannot emphasize with is children being brought into the world in really fucked up family set ups and with seriously low, or state dependent wages. The Guardianistas on here may say it's a Daily Fail myth- but even though the people doing this are in the minority, there are still a huge amount of people doing it (my mum sees numerous different families with the same set up every single working day!) and it's not fair on the baby being born or the 3-4 children that they already have.

Love is not enough. And it's not about affording ski trips in Year 10 or piano lessons- but the bare essentials. You may WANT that child, but if you can't feed it, clothe it or put a roof over it's head- then it's irresponsible to have it. Yes, accidents happen and you may have used contraception- but if you are in these dire straits, then I think abortion is the best option.

'I have two children so I have 0.6 of a child up for grabs, raffle tickets will be drawn at the close of the thread.'

Reminiscent of Jonathan Swift's 'A Modest Proposal' Could solve all the problems over meals and budgeting for meat.

nobody I know is entitled gee but I is quite particular about who i hang out with

Well Jumpingthroughhoops, as I'm in Ireland where the average is 2.2 children, it appears I am even more deficient than I thought! Can I have the bottom bit please because I cant afford to feed another 1.2 on £50 dinners?

Frankly I am tempted to give mine away today. It all seemed like a good idea at the time but clearly I am a terrible parent, plonking them in front of the telly and all that.

If the OP is from Denmark please could she give me contact details of any single Danish men she knows.

To be honest OP most families are responsible and only have the amount of DC they can cope with in terms of finance and time/energy.

However, there are some poeple that have more children despite the fact that they are clearly not managing with the ones they have. Those people never cease to amaze me. Why do ti to themselves? Why do it to the DC they already have? Why, why, why?

"then I think abortion is the best option."

And not legal every where. Not even every where in the UK.

Op either comes from Spain, Italy, Malta or Slovakia.

Or Poland.

Blimey £50 just for one meal, my lord are you a millionaire?
I get half a weeks shop for that

TBF OP, We've just realised we can't afford our children this week! My DP is an Architect, I'm a stay at home wifey so probably tick some of your judgemental boxes but have you seen how much these clubs and lessons cost? I signed up my DS for swimming lessons yesterday and they wanted a months payment up front, then some more cash, then some money for leisure membership, the outcome- we can't provide our usual 50 pounds a day meals!

Cherry you are making a very reasonable and articulate point - the OP didn't.

I agree with you btw - I was never able to afford a second child. The childcare for my dd crippled me and I was skint for years. By the time I could afford another one I decided that I didn't want to go back to the days of £1000 a month childcare costs. But then I am a shallow type who likes to spaff money on fripperies, some people have different priorities. As is their right.

GetOrfMoiRing I can send you the details of some Swedish single men?