I do not understand why people have kids when they can not afford them.

[sea74]

I know this topic will create lots of critics but i want to share my thoughts and see if anyone agrees or i am the odd one out.
I come from a european country where the fertility rate is 1.4 that is each woman/family has 1.4 child. Grandparents very often are the to help, but women (and men) are responsible enough not to have children if they can not afford them or look after them.
I grew up thinking that i want children not because i want them for me but because i have to donate life and their life must be a good life. Children are not mine but they are individuals.

Having said that, when i moved to the UK, i realised how things are different.
I feel that many people think children will not change their lives, they get pregnant easily, they do not really worry too much (and take contraception) in order to avoid pregnancies.
Then, when they have the child, you see that often these children live in broken families, or the single mothers do not have 50 pounds to buy them a decent meal, or they are left in front of the tv all summer because they had not planned childcare is expensive and grandparents live far.

Children should be planned carefully, i think and it is very selfish to have them without thinking of (and being ready for) the consequences.

No. I'm Married, skint and feckless skint because we pay our employees too much

RE: Employing staff for poor wages.

IME working under someone who's built the business from nothing, they have got to a point where they don't care about their workers. They are only interested in getting money into the business. Business is crap, pay is frozen, cuts are being made everywhere, when they are here they are a nightmare (angry, demanding, unreasonable) yet I can't count how many times they have been at their abroad holiday home so far this year (mainly there rather than here) plus a long haul holiday plus a new car bentley.

I think they fully deserve the lifestyle they have given what they've achieved, but I do not think they have the right to pay staff so poorly and treat them like shit when they see them, whilst being so indiscreet about the lack of cuts in their own lifestyle at the expense of their staff. Just saying a personal thank you and acknowledging when you've gone the extra mile would be nice.

Thats a massive generalisation Wankpants. I am so very proud that my former members of staff (lost my business due really to events of September 11th) still come up to dh and I now and say they'd work for us tomorrow given the oppurtunity.

Of course we did also have our fair share of pisstakers.

Lots of people are worth more than they earn.

But you will only take home what someone is prepared to pay you.

I am not generalising, I am talking specifically about my own experience!

Seriously, where did I say "and this is true of all business owners"? Just thought I'd share how it's been for me. As a lowly worker clearly I am not allowed. AGAIN.

Sorry! Re read!

I found my finest hour was working nights at Tesco. My manager said he liked my attitude and would put me on the management course but I'd have to do it unpaid and he'd expect me to do unpaid work experience. When I refused , he shrugged and said that I'd be stacking shelve forever.

9 months after I resigned as Ds had started school I had retuned to a job in what I was qualified to do, he walked through my door for a job interview.

No one is EVER a lowly worker. Anyone who thinks workers are lowly should not be allowed management positions, but sadly bastards float up like the turds they are.

I don't even think it's about how much money a person is worth, it's this idea that someone on a low income doesn't work as hard, shouldn't have children and doesn't contribute to society as much as someone on a higher wage.

I think it's the minority who think this way. Although most of the people I've met on above average wage have been relatives of those I care for, who understand if it wasn't for me, and others like me they would have to give up their well paid jobs and look after family members themselves

That's it moomin the absolute monetary value of your taxes is not the only way in which a person contributes to the economy. Although it is the easiest one to quantify

Sorry pressed send too soon. A person's labour also helps generate revenue for the business in which they are employed or as in moomin's case their labour enables the work of others who do earn more.

I know someone who has had two kids, is obese, single parent and not had a job since her early twenties. She has cost the taxpayer a fortune in benefits, but on the other hand she is a hub in her community and visits several elderly people and does their shopping for them, is involved in all sorts of community projects for the young and old, volunteering and supporting people. If she were forced to work she would be working in a supermarket or a care home on a minimum wage as there are no other jobs where she lives.

On paper, she is a waste of taxpayers money. In reality she has saved many people from isolation and deprivation and made her community a better place to be. If everyone is put under pressure there will be no people like her to take up the slack where privatised and state services leave off.

When I had young dcs I did lots of voluntary work and changed the lives of many people for the better. That was never counted or added up or taxed, but it only happened because I had dcs and didn't work.

can anyone tell me which was the thread telling people to eat cheap bread and not eat non free range chickens - id like to see !!!ta

I'll see if I can find and link to it, it was a bit crazy

cheap bread

chicken thread

I have one child but he's really fat, so I think he should be classed as at least 1.4 children. AND I can afford him.

OP, can you ask your country to send me a medal for Doing It Right?

What happened to 2.4 children and a dog? I thought that was our national average?

Me too saggy

I think the OP is arguing that it is wrong Ito have that average.

I know! I was being facetious!

thankyou moomin and usual !

9 months after I resigned as Ds had started school I had retuned to a job in what I was qualified to do, he walked through my door for a job interview.

What happened Absolutely...... (im nosy)

He was not amused.

I professional that I am pointed out I knew him and he was offered the oppurtunity to be interviewed by someone else.

My senior manager did it. My senior manager realised he was a twat after 5 minutes, but let the interview run for 15 more because " I have never heard so much utter wank come from one person before"

Absolutely thats fucking brilliant. pmsl. If it were me i would have had a good bloody gloat. OMG what a bloody good example of what goes around comes around. Fab.