to think that women are stupid?

[lovebunny]

elsewhere, there is a complaint about being unsupported when breastfeeding. this is a feminist issue - and the fault lies fairly and squarely at the feet of women.

i am astounded that after the battles fought in the seventies and eighties, women have allowed such regression.

look how stupid women are today. they have their bodies surgically adapted to men's fantasies - breasts enlarged, labia trimmed - they bleach their hair, tattoo their eyeliner and lipstick and have themselves spray-painted. they remove their pubic hair so they look like children for their (multiple) partners. if you read about it in a book on social anthropology you'd be horrified at the 'oppression' of women. but women think they are choosing this!

then they say 'oh, its not fair, no-one supports me when i'm breastfeeding'. too damn right they don't. because you and your compatriots have allowed everyone to see you as barbie dolls to use and abuse. they don't want to see you being women, being grown up, feeding your babies, that spoils the fantasy. you created this; live with it.

when you've finished screaming at me about your 'rights' to have your mons pubis decorated with fake jewels and to have your isabella piercing, organise yourselves.

wash your faces, let the fake tan fade, cut off your dyed hair and let it grow back naturally, so your babies can recognise the human being their genetic memory was expecting to find here. stay free from chemicals that mask your natural odours, so your babies can recognise you by smell. if people are pressurising you to 'go back to work' say, 'certainly. when this baby chooses to stop breastfeeding'. that gives you four to five years at home, maybe longer, when you are doing something no-one else can - being your babies' mothers.

the 'male' has been accepted as the 'norm' in society - so some early feminists wanted to be like men - some of that lingers. but feminists who believe in the strength and value of the female, have retreated into hiding. wake up! speak up! these are your daughters, sisters, aunts, even your mothers tarting themselves up and whoring themselves out to all and sundry trying to be 'wives and girlfriends'! they're too stupid to realise they've been conned!

educate your daughters. make them aware of political and societal manipulation. make women free - free from pressure to look a certain way, behave a certain way. free, in fact, to be women. free to want to eat without guilt, work, reproduce, raise children, form partnerships, find contentment and find peace of mind.

don't leave this to someone else. if strong women don't act to make the world a better place for women, no-one will. and in twenty years' time, i'll be reading 'oh, society doesn't support breast-feeding mothers'. again.

not a fan of the P&G advert for mums either tbh

something not quite right...quite patronising

My partner likes it when I dont wear makeup but I prefer it so I do :)

To hownoo neither of those things are disgusting, but if I saw a woman with massively hairy legs I'd think ew. I'm not denying we are socially conditioned, but it is doing us no harm in fact it benefits us a lot. We don't have to conform to social norms. We chose to. That's what people are failing to see.

And a question: how come some men prefer hairless fanjos and legs? Oh that's it, they're socially conditioned to.

You can't prattle on as though women are these poor victims with no choic because we aren't.

What is 'ew' if not an expression of disgust?

'look how stupid women are today. they have their bodies surgically adapted to men's fantasies - breasts enlarged, labia trimmed - they bleach their hair, tattoo their eyeliner and lipstick and have themselves spray-painted. they remove their pubic hair so they look like children for their (multiple) partners. if you read about it in a book on social anthropology you'd be horrified at the 'oppression' of women. but women think they are choosing this!'

I agree with this part. I don't get that intelligent women choose this option. They are just making it harder for our daughters.

think of it in reverse, and there is an increasing number of men going down the trim/hairless/buffed/fake tan route

so isnt it just about vanity, as a whole? not anything to do with gender?

give me a hairy, macho man any day, than a buffed skinny bloke with smoother skin than me!

Now, I was having thoughts about this the other day - I shaved my legs and armpits for the first time in ages - becuase they felt fluffy and sweaty.

Nice

Wow OP Got something on your mind?

jellybeans I tend to think when women do extreme femininity they either lack self-confidence or life opportunities, not intelligence.

OP-your beauty regime? if you have one? please share it?

agree Plenty

usually women choosing the extreme femininity know VERY well what they are doing

so have a high intelligence, emotional intelligence perhaps more than the genius kind

If anybody's interested in this stuff, Sheila Jeffreys' book Beauty and Misogyny is a good read. [WARNING: contains radical feminism]

She has managed to write a whole book about it without once calling women stupid.

The 'social norms' and 'conditioning' you refer to are a consequence of the patriarchal drive to make you feel you really should buy all that stuff from the pharmaceuticals billionaires. The disgust you feel for a woman's untreated body - a body like your own - is a patriarchal effect to keep you in your place.

Body odour was "invented" to create a marketplace for new products. We did it as a case study in marketing. It was initially targeted at women for no other reason than it's easier to make women feel insecure.

What you think is 'normal' social conditioning is manipulation. I'm not asking you to do anything about it of you don't feel like it, but I am asking that you recognise this simple fact.

You don't think the billionaire men who own the porn industries made their female 'stars' hairless for their own advantage? You don't think porn influences the preference you now notice in men, for childlike naked fanjos?

can see what you mean garlic

but I cant take your link between not wanting to smell funny meaning we are all supposedly linked to the porn industry, in a subtle way?

YY, 'tis a good book, Pubes.

Cailtin Moran's pretty good on this stuff, too, and a fun read.

Balls balls balls and more balls.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter now, I'm not having hypocrites trying to force their beliefs on me.

THE EGYPTIANS CHOSE TO DO THESE THINGS. AS DID OTHER WOMEN THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY. They did it because they wanted to.

I'm not ignoring the fact that we are marketed to, I'm not denying that they create issues (I went to a business and enterprise college and had to learn all this to pass) that they can sell products for. What I am telling you is that it is still our choice as women.

Like these god for saken vajazzles, they're popular at the moment. Do I choose to partake, no because I don't like them.
But I choose to shave because I like the feeling of softness, I like silky materials.
We pick and choose what we like to do. If you can't accept that then on the fire with you :o

pinkpeppa i think that is the point she is making,you (general) only think that smell is funny because we have been told it is.Im sure for however many thousands of years it was we were walking around with no deodrant and razors we didnt think that we smelt funny,it was just a natural smell.

We are all affected by social conditioning and marketing.

What I don't understand is why some posters insist on mentioning this as if it is some great revelation that will cause people to have an ephiany, fall to their knees, weep with gratitude and fling their GHDs through the window.

Instead of just going "yes, we know. We are all affected by social conditioning and marketing. In other news, the sky is blue."

I also find some posters apparant belief that they are not affected by social conditioning and marketing rather sweet and amusing. The OP choosing not to bleach her hair and wear make up (or whatever) is actually just the result of the social conditioning she has been exposed to. No more or less a free choice than the woman who fake tans - just a different reaction to a different set of stimuli.

Also, out of interest, it isn't sex that sells as is commonly thought. It is actually fear. Advertisers create new fears all the time, BO, bad breath etc. But there are social fears like "not fitting in" and "not being attractive". These are very powerful.

But we all bloody know that.

Great post catgirl

Anything i do to my body, is for myself, beauty wise. I like to feel i look good, not for anyone else, and will physically torture anyone who says i do it for a man. Not at all.

What is looking good though?Isnt that the whole point of this?that looking good seems to be a ceratin size,with certain size boobs,tanned,clear skinned,glossy haired huge lashes jessica rabbit type thing?Everyones assuming if you dont wear make up and fake tan and dye your hair etc etc etc then you must be horrible....do you lot really look that bad without all of that on?

Everyones assuming if you dont wear make up and fake tan and dye your hair etc etc etc then you must be horrible....do you lot really look that bad without all of that on?

Are they? I don't think they are.

• Why would your baby need to recognise your from your smell? Unless, of course, your baby has severe visual and hearing impairment, but luckily that's not very common.
• Do you realise that some women cannot afford staying at home for 5 years while the baby weanes itself?
• Provided you are a woman and epilate at least your shins you must realise that a hairless skin is much more comfortable and clean - especially in hot weather and especially in areas not normally exposed to ventillation.

In the very early weeks when sight is crap in newborns they do indeed us smell. With both mine I have avoided deodorant for a few days and perfumes for a few weeks.

yes catgirl,have you read this thread?

I don't find it more comfortable and clean, it just stops people from going 'ew' on the bus.