to think that women are stupid?

[lovebunny]

elsewhere, there is a complaint about being unsupported when breastfeeding. this is a feminist issue - and the fault lies fairly and squarely at the feet of women.

i am astounded that after the battles fought in the seventies and eighties, women have allowed such regression.

look how stupid women are today. they have their bodies surgically adapted to men's fantasies - breasts enlarged, labia trimmed - they bleach their hair, tattoo their eyeliner and lipstick and have themselves spray-painted. they remove their pubic hair so they look like children for their (multiple) partners. if you read about it in a book on social anthropology you'd be horrified at the 'oppression' of women. but women think they are choosing this!

then they say 'oh, its not fair, no-one supports me when i'm breastfeeding'. too damn right they don't. because you and your compatriots have allowed everyone to see you as barbie dolls to use and abuse. they don't want to see you being women, being grown up, feeding your babies, that spoils the fantasy. you created this; live with it.

when you've finished screaming at me about your 'rights' to have your mons pubis decorated with fake jewels and to have your isabella piercing, organise yourselves.

wash your faces, let the fake tan fade, cut off your dyed hair and let it grow back naturally, so your babies can recognise the human being their genetic memory was expecting to find here. stay free from chemicals that mask your natural odours, so your babies can recognise you by smell. if people are pressurising you to 'go back to work' say, 'certainly. when this baby chooses to stop breastfeeding'. that gives you four to five years at home, maybe longer, when you are doing something no-one else can - being your babies' mothers.

the 'male' has been accepted as the 'norm' in society - so some early feminists wanted to be like men - some of that lingers. but feminists who believe in the strength and value of the female, have retreated into hiding. wake up! speak up! these are your daughters, sisters, aunts, even your mothers tarting themselves up and whoring themselves out to all and sundry trying to be 'wives and girlfriends'! they're too stupid to realise they've been conned!

educate your daughters. make them aware of political and societal manipulation. make women free - free from pressure to look a certain way, behave a certain way. free, in fact, to be women. free to want to eat without guilt, work, reproduce, raise children, form partnerships, find contentment and find peace of mind.

don't leave this to someone else. if strong women don't act to make the world a better place for women, no-one will. and in twenty years' time, i'll be reading 'oh, society doesn't support breast-feeding mothers'. again.

lovebunny doesn't sound like a name for a feminist

I do live in an area where there are lots of men - of all ages - who seem just as concerned & seem to feel quite pressurised over their appearance as many women - sometimes more so.
Also i've not seen any 'hairy German women' when i've been on holiday in Ibiza & Majorca; many of the Germans i've seen (male & female) are well-groomed & intimidatingly fit & attractive.
I don't feel that pressurised to wear make up & worry about my looks all the time - a lot of my hair fell out due to medication; a year ago i was wearing wigs or scarves to disguise the hair loss. I often couldn't be bothered to wear make up because i felt so ill. Yet men were still pleasant & friendly, & i even got asked out on dates still.
However i think that basic hygiene & cleanliness including wearing anti-perspirant deodorant is very important - it shows consideration of those around you so they don't have to put up with unpleasant smells. In my job as a nurse it's important to keep my hair clean & neatly tied back; & to look smart.

That DOESN'T include wearing lots of make up; dyeing my hair or whatever; those things are an individual choice.

It just involves showering, keeping hair clean & looking neat, smelling nice & clean (body & breath); & wearing clean clothes that look tidy.

I think anyone who doesn't do those basics is either A) minging & disrespectful to other people; B) too unwell to cope with those basic things (as i was, & still can be myself at times) or C) very very poor with limited access to a sink or laundry facilities.

*Hah!

I agree with sentiment of your OP, OP.

This made me very cross, though: tarting themselves up and whoring themselves out to all and sundry*

fair enough! but its one of the symptoms of the sickness pervading society...freedom of choice is positive, but inability to be selective is not!

I understand social conditioning, and I CHOOSE to go along with it. Just like you may CHOSE not to. Anyone who says they don't is a liar anyway so...

Krumbum does any of what you're talking about even matter? Really though? If we all suddenly decided to give up shaving and stopped dressing fashionably and taking care of our appearance that isn't going to be some radical movement for feminism. In fact it'd put people off.

Like I said if its a social norm to do these things it's a very old one, referring back to Acient Egptians again. They did it. There just wasnt this ridiculous uproar thn about what women liked to do with their own bodies.

And men shave their faces, trim nose hairs etc. We're all effected by social norms, not just women.

Not to the same extent. Obviously. Women are expected to do much more and it can be painful and limiting, quite clearly.
It's cumulative, fighting patriarchy is about doing all the things to help women be more equal, from the small to the big because they all have an impact on women being seen as second class sexual objects for men. Look at it from the bigger picture.

Fucking hell. Thats one heck of a rant. Reading it i almost imagined a protest being started instead of a rant. Anywhoo...

I like to dye my hair. Red or purple. I think it looks nice on me.
I like to wear foundation or concealer. I have an uneven skin tone with scars so i like to look presentable at job interviews or meetings.
I have 2 tattoos. Both of which i also like. 1 of them you can see. 1 of them you cant unless im topless. The 2nd one i feel is quite femanine as its a butterfly at each stage about to fly. Some people like them, some dont. Thats fine i perfectly understand each side.
I have my ears pierced. I like the look of pretty earrings in some shops. They look lovely on me when my hair is tied up.
I like to use perfume, shower gel, body butter, deoderant because i like the smell.
I like to shave "down there" because it makes me feel cleaner, dont ask me why i think it may be a ocd i have of some sort.

I dont do any of these things to find myself a man. I dont want a man or a relationship. I do it because i like to. Frankly couldnt give a shit what you think about my little list above. I havent had multiple partners. I think its very unfair how you've portrayed women. Had you said "some" not just "women" then id have let you off.

oh, go on, let me off anyway.

Just because i've had a crap week & at the end of my tether with caring, ill let you off.

I'm confused, so if I present myself to the world in way appearing to appeal to men's sexual appetites I'm oppressed and stupid, but if I decide to let my chin hair and gypsy skirt out for an airing I'm suddenly contributing to the feminist movement?

How about I do whatever I want to do, not be told what to do by anyone?

Do bollock off with your arbitrary rules of whether or not some one is stupid or not based on their appearance, it's fucking offensive, small minded and not in any way enlightened or particularly intelligent.

Krumbum will you stop coming out with stupid comments like 'look at the bigger picture' and 'open your eyes'

YOU are the one who needs to open your eyes. Social conditioning is a good thing in many ways. We choose to embrace the ones we like, shun those that we don't. Where would we be WITHOUT social conditioning. Give that a think.

If a woman wants to do these things for a man, then that's her own daft fault. I do it for myself, as do many. I am not in denial. I am perfectly in tune with what I want and what makes ME happy with myself.

And mans grooming doesnt hurt? Have you ever removed your nose hair :o

You're the one repressing women because you're telling us we shouldn't do these things. How about you let us have a choice without patronising us nto being big hairy smelly sods? Feminist my arse. I'd be ashamed to be a feminist if they were all like this!

Feminism is about giving women power, you're taking away that power by removing their choices

And also, so you are admitting that men are repressed then? Because you said 'not to the same extent'
If its men who's repressing us who is repressing them then?

Patriarchy Isnt actually positive for most men. It restricts them toocave cause of gender roles.
I say look at the bigger picture because your arguments are all based on individuals and I'm talking politically about society, I'm asking you to look at it from that perspective.
No one is telling women not to do these things, just explaining why they feel the need to do these things. That's opening up more choice not less.

Patriarchy isn't "men" repressing "women". It's a pyramid power structure, with a handful of (mainly white, mainly male) people at the top and millions of (mainly brown, mainly female) people at the bottom.

The structure relies on perpetual downward pressure - oppression - to keep the layers in place, supporting the handful of 'winners' at the top. It will use any available tool to keep pushing down and has an excellent array of psychological weapons as well as economic and physical ones. The cleverest of these are those which make the oppressed feel that their oppressed position is right and just; it makes the lower layers oppress themselves and each other. This is exactly how abuse works, too.

As each layer oppresses the ones below it, it presses down harder on its own women than its men. This is because one of the basic rules of patriarchy - or, depending who you speak to, its only basic rule - is that men must enjoy more privilege than women. Since privilege levels are hierarchical, the women of a high layer have more privilege than the men in a low layer. But, taken a layer at a time, men oppress women because that's the way the patriarchy pyramid works.

We are ALL in this pyramid! If you're one of the very few living in a totally self-sufficient and independent, egalitarian community, you are not reading this because internet-enabled devices feed the patriarchy so you haven't got one.

I did an exercise a couple of years back. I traced the companies that own the companies that sell all of the toiletries I use. Where I thought I was buying from, I suppose about 40 companies, I found that they all ended up being owned by fewer than half a dozen. I looked up the main board members of those companies. More than 90% were men. Only one had a female CEO.

That's patriarchy in action and, as you can see, making the women AND men feel that they are worth less without the smellies, shavers, dyes, toners, accessories and so forth sold by those half a dozen corporations. It does it to men and women ... but not alike, because we in the patriarchy accept that men enjoy more privilege (slightly less oppression) than women.

Long, but worthwhile, I felt :)

• the owners of those half a dozen corporations at the top get richer by making lower-down women AND men feel that they are worth less without the smellies, shavers, dyes, toners, accessories and so forth sold by their corporations.

Havn't read the whole thread, but suggest OP ups her dosage.

Dusty Springfield had bleached hair and massive fake eyelashes. She was a lesbian though. And a genius. Just saying.

blimey

so you'd rather all women were wandering around dishevelled, unwashed, unshaved legs etc, messy hair, no makeup?

eugh

extremist? much?

can you tell us your beauty regime, if you have one? how will you educate your daughter if you have one, on hygiene being not to please others, but to make herself feel clean and presentable? giving her pride, and therefore confidence?

wandering around dishevelled, unwashed, unshaved legs etc, messy hair, no makeup

Describes me at the moment It's not so bad!

i can see though how extreme can also be a million beauty products before stepping out the door

so to just go back to basics, would this still be adhering to a patriarchy?

or simply adopting an attitude of pride, to foster self respect?

ie- using cleansing wipes, moisturisers, a little foundation, mascara and lippy, instead of a whole range of other procedures is what i mean by taking it back to basics

me too Garlic! quite liberating, in its own way...

I've had a wash

I have whittled down my makeup/beauty regime to under 10 mins

without it, I feel different, somewhat incapable

sad to say

although, in saying that, DH proposed to me when I was at my most dishevelled, camping, had run out of makeup

must have had his beer goggles on

Keeping clean is obviously preferable but why do some posters find it a turn off or disgusting to not wear make-up or shave your legs? If you think that is yuck then maybe the OP has a point and you have bought into the whole social conditioning thing. You are probably Proctor and Gambles wet dream.