To email the school re a man at the bus stop???

[JumpingThroughHoops]

Well I have emailed, so no AIBU about it really

Yesterday (Friday) 20 mins after primary school ended I saw a man at the bus stop outside the school. The bus stop usually has a large amount of teenaged girls waiting from the secondary opposite.

He was by himself indicating a bus had just been; there were no other adults or children around.

BUT. Earlier that morning the same man was at the primary sports day. He wasn't with a lady (for that read wife or partner), no reason why he should have been really, he might have been a single dad. BUT. He was chatting with another father, or rather he was listening as the other father waxed lyrical, pointing out his children and all their little friends, getting them to wave over.

Two months previous, I was on a train and he sat opposite me, with a French lady with two small girls (maybe 3 and 5). I assumed they were together, he knew their names. He carried their suitcase. I assumed the stilted conversation was because the lady didn't have English as a first language. I also assumed they were together because he was teasing one of the girls until she screamed in frustration. He was also asking lots of questions, but not in an obvious way, such as "when do you go home?" What are you doing tomorrow?" "is your Dad missing you?" - which of course I was oblivious to on the train because it was general chit chat.

See him at sports day and think it's that annoying wind up merchant again "oh, I didn't know there were little French girls at this school". There aren't any little French girls at the school and they were too young to be in the KS3 sports day anyway.

See him at the bus stop and think "hang on a min" gut instinct kicks in, something just isn't right here.

So I've emailed school with a full description, a set of circumstances and no accusations, because he wasn't actually doing anything suspiciously.

*disclaimer, I don't see a paedophile behind every tree, but I am a believer in gut instinct. I don't know why the red flags shot up when I saw him again. Probably because he was a bit of charmer, again not in an obvious way, he was just very good at ferreting out information from people.

Probably an entirely coincidental set of innocent circumstances and he is a listener rather than a talker.

Would you have emailed the school?

he might have a step family and an older child from previous relationship. French mum might have been his work colleugue/freind/relative?

In which case all the scenarios you have all put up - my email will be discounted entirely - so no harm done.

On the other hand. If he had no valid reason to be there, then I've raised a point of concern.

And I did think long and hard (and discuss with DH) before sending the email.

Well at my kids sports day as long as he seemed to be with another parent (eg. chatting) the teachers would have assumed he was an unfamiliar (to them) Dad or and Uncle. Anyway the teachers tend to be very very busy on sports day. It is very different watching sports day to taking the kids home afterwards.

In all my safeguarding training it is pointed out how crucial it is to take gut instinct and intuition very seriously. Even CAB checks only catch people already known to the police.

Personally I know as I'm a bit thick sometimes about hints, that if gut instinct kicks in I pay attention to it.

I think the only thing I'd pull out here is that-has he gone to the school sports' day with no children. It could be that he's a governor, or ex-staff/pupil and is invited. If he's inviting himself then I think that is concern. Not necessarily more than a lonely person who enjoys interacting with children in a "nice way" though.

Do you know the other parent he spoke with well enough to raise it in a careful way. What I mean is say something along the lines of "the chap you were talking to? I know him from somewhere, which are his children?"

It may be they don't know-but if they say "Oh that's X, he's Y's father/uncle/school governor/head's brother/groundkeeper" then I'd expect it to be fine, and wouldn't worry at all.

If they don't know, then I think raising it at the school that you are slightly concerned as there was someone there you think may have come not with children at the school. I wouldn't mention the other incidents-it makes you look a bit of a stalker! Again they might come out with a good reason, but if they don't then they may keep a look out next time. I'm sure the local schools would take it seriously.

Well exactly - they'll read my email (v good description, you couldn't not know who it was if he was a known parent/carer etc IYSWIM) and say "that's Freds Dad/Uncle/guardian and Mrs Jumping is off her ruddy trolley" - or not. I don't expect an answer. Nor would I want one TBH.

I do realise it is probably 99.9% innocent and circumstancial - but that 0.1% just keeps niggling me.

Well in my profession.. We work on FACTS.

Gut instinct?my arse!
The vast majority of children are abused by someone known and trusted by their parents! Obviously they had no gut instinct!

Lets examine the evidence.
You are suspicious of a man waiting at a bus stop when there are no children there???
He is talking to a dad at what at one point you call a primary sports day, and later on a KS3 sports day. You think this is suspicious because you once saw him on a train talking to a lady and her younger children which you think means he can't possibly have older children too?

You are totally barmy, loop the loop, bonkers, nutty as a fruitcake!!

KS3 = KS2 - apologies for typo.

holycamera I can see your point but IMO we can't be too careful with our kids. I don't think he's been labelled a paedo, the op makes it clear in her e mail that he's done nothing wrong. I would be very upset if this happened to my husband but op hasn't been telling all and sundry about him, or called the police, she is just trying to make the school aware just in case.

Yes Peodophiles like to be where children but sometimes people without children, who Innocently like children, like to be where children are. When my family and I lived in our previous flat, there used to be a fellow resident- a man, late 60's that would come around to see us with gifts, usually books from charity shops for my DS who was 3 at the time. He took a real shining to him. We lived opposite a park that he visited without fail at the same times everyday to feed the squirrels! There is a primary school on the same road, so he would often see lots of children when he was feeding the squirrels. My DP couldn't get his head around this man's interest in our son and thought it was odd that he fed the squirrels at the end of the school day. I think he muttered something about grooming but I honestly think he was just a lonely man. He smelt quite bad and wore the same clothes pretty much daily- I think this added to my DP's prejudices and stereotyping but as my Dad pointed out, you shouldn't underestimate the Paternal feelings of some Men who have not had children. It is more socially acceptable for a woman to show that kind of affection for young children, especially older women.

I later found out that he had lost his partner 18 months prior to us moving in and this added weight to my belief that he was just lonely. Interestingly, the neighbour living above had made out he was a bit of an oddball but when I moved out of this flat another resident told me that this particular neighbour was very aggressive, had been to prison for domestic violence in the 80's- so it must've been bad and had threatened the older man he referred to as, 'the oddball' in a drunken rage because this man had his TV on too loud. If we'd known this when living at the flat I would've been scared of upsetting him with noise from crying babies etc. ironically, my DP thought he was ok and you knew where you stood with him and that his 'gut instinct' about the neighbour that had an affection for our DS was as this other resident pointed out, an oddball.

I agree with mummytime, that you cannot ignore "gut instinct" and have been taught this by various courses pertaining to security. I also think that JumpingThroughHoops was right to alert the school to her concerns - if she as wrong, no harm done, but what if several other parents have mentioned odd behaviour from this individual? The school will not be able to see there is a pattern if no one says anything.

True story: a small boy in my neighbourhood used to come by our house with his grandmother, to chase pet our ducks and chickens. Something about the grandmother gave me the creeps and I was only 13. A couple of years later I ran into the boy again - he was taken into the care system and wound up in our house (my parent was a foster carer) because his grandmother and her boyfriend were sexually abusing him. Please, don't just ignore gut instinct.

OP, have you never bumped into another mum outside school when her kids are there but yours aren't and chatted to her?

And gone to a school sports day when another parent is blabbing on about their wonderful child and you don't want to say much for fear of getting into competitive boasting?

Or waited for your child outside school?!

I'm sorry but I get a bit fed up with hearing about gut instinct sometimes, apply a bit of commonsense with it. Fair enough if this guy is a colleague, friend or other close acquaintance to give you enough to go on but three fleeting eavesdropping encounters does not (especially as you said yourself you were largely oblivious to one). I know obviously men are far more likely to sexually abuse than women, statistically speaking, but if the circumstances would pass entirely without any thought where a woman is concerned then you really shouldn't be assuming the absolute worst with a bloke, otherwise we'd all be spending far too much time contacting schools and police about gut instincts.

Poor guy. I agree with the poster who said let's hope he's just about to be employed by the school so at least he gets a laugh out of it.

It's worthy of a Brass Eye special.

yabvu

but IMO we can't be too careful with our kids.

I've never understood this mantra. Because were it to be followed society just wouldn't function.

The "evidence" here is at best tenuous. And saying "Well if he isn't no harm done" doesn't cut it with me either.

And yes, i'm a a non resident father who finds it hard enough attending school events to the judgemental looks as it is!

Fwiw I think you have done the right thing. You haven't gone to the police and stuck posters up declaring that a paedo is in the area, you've simply emailed your concerns to the school.
Gut instinct can be a life saver at times:
About 10 years ago I was walking my dog in a small field behind my parents home. No one was around.
A young good looking man in a smart suit & shades, walked diagonally across the field, he slowed, stared at me for a moment longer than felt polite and my dog, who adored anyone, backed away as he neared us. She normally ran to anyone, thinking everyone was her friend.
Those 2 things (stare and dog's behaviour) sent my alarm bells ringing and I swiftly went home.
When I got home my neighbour was in a state because her friend had almost been abducted in a nearby shop: good looking chap in a suit had grabbed her arm and tried to drag her out.
I rang the police, it was definitely him, and he had tried to abduct 3 other girls (teens) that day. I'm short and rather young looking I was also a lot slimmer so he might have been checking my age with the stare, maybe my dog put him off too.
Police picked him up though which is good news.

Sparks, please be assured that most mums will be sympathising with the potential sensitivity of your situation.

Flying that's dodgy behaviour though! The OP just isn't.

True, and I guess, on the basis of the stare and my dog backing away... I wouldn't have ring the police on that alone. It was only once I'd heard the description from neighbour...

I would guess that the "gut instinct" is a result of the paedo hysteria first started by the NOTW and reading far too much into perfectly explicable circumstances, either a new or relatively unknown member of school staff or a father who child hasn't yet been identified, beens as it's only three occasions and all...

I dont think you should. There are a lot of assumptions, heresay and nothing conclusive in your post. Not all men are paedophiles . Could be that he s lone.y you don't know

*whose child hasn't yet been identified.

sparks if you research my posts I'm usually bang on the rights of NR fathers.

No -one queried the rights of a NR (male) parents to be at a school event. I have been at pains to point out I have no valid reason for my "flags" to be raised. But they are, I can't help that.

FYI - of all the people who think 'gut instinct' is a bit of bollox, and for those who deal in 'facts' - I thought I'd randomly throw in that Peter Sutcliffe was pulled and questioned by the police 9 times before ...well we know what happened next.

oh and I have to be at pains to throw in a situation like that does not imply the random bus stop man is in anyway a rapist either.

You can only deal in facts if you are in possession of them.

Have I missed it - what do you think the school is going to do?

What place does "gut instinct" have in the law?

A man being with a girl / wife doesn't automatically stop them being a pedophile you know. Likewise, a single man on his own near children doesn't automatically mean a pedophile.