AIBU to talk about gay people with year 3s?

[opalfruitblast]

We were talking generally today, when I said that there are more males than females in the world. One child then asked who the extra boys would marry if there were not enough girls. Another child said that boys can marry boys, to which one child went 'urgh!', thus another child saying she didn't understand how people can be against men loving men or women loving women.

I said that, in my eyes, love is love, and it doesn't matter if you're a boy or a girl. Bear in mind I have a child in my class with two mums, and one with two dads...

Should I even be discussing homosexuality with 7 and 8 year olds? Personally, I think they should know about the different types of people in the world but I can see how some parents might object.

"Presumably if they kids had taken it further to that level then advice could have been sought"

It should be in place, not sought afterwards. Shortly, only small schools will not have same sex parents in and policies should be known.

It is around race, but i often find that it isn't clear around sexuality or gender discrimination.

It isn't in the OP's school, otherwise she shouldn't have to ask on a public forum, which she shouldn't, if she is a teacher working in a LA school.

As these discussions arise, all staff members should be clearand follow the same lines (even the likes of 47, who scarily could be a teacher, if she so chose to be).

Children should not be taught about homosexuality they should be taught about relationships. Be it boy/girl, boy/boy or girl/girl. No difference just two people in love with one another. Setting it up as something unusual or different means they won't see it as a perfectly normal way.

Yes there is a surprising amount of prejudice still around but if children don't see what the fuss is about someone having a same sex partner then that can change.

Ah I see what you mean Birds, soz. I thought you meant should have been in place before starting that individual discussion not generally with a knowledge requirement. Yes the school should be more proactive on it.

I'm with GnabGib.

You clearly have the courage of your convictions. Ok. And maybe you even really believe that your beliefs don't affect how you treat people.

But you have a hell of a lot of faith in your kids if you really think that you can pass your attitude on to them and they'll be able to show the same restraint you claim to show.

You think they would never whisper to a friend that 'X's parents are going to hell'? That they'd never fall out with X and shout 'Well, my mum says your mums are sinners!" Or that they wouldn't (mybe worst of all) warn X and encourage them to try to get their parents to repent?

I think it depends hugely on the demographic of the school.

I work in a school with massively traditional, conservative attitudes (a lot of the teachers are still getting used to 1 parent households let alone same sex households!) There are 400ish children in the school and probably only around 20-30 of those are single parents and 0 are homosexual couples. Most of the children have no sense of normalcy about same sex relationships and find honosexuality hilarious and/or disgusting. They are very difficult attitudes to handle but, I think, typical of rural, affluent Southern England.

In my classroom I would not hold a conversation like that for fear of going against what a parent has taught their child or what they want to tell their child. If I was working in London I would definitely say it.

All the more reason to say it, who else is going to normalise it?

Yanbu

My dc picked up on gay as an insult in the playground without knowing what it meant. Your explanation was perfectly reasonable- personally I would have agreed with the girl who defended gay people and congratulated her on her kindness and understanding.

If you'd discussed gay sex then that would be dodgy ground but it sounds like a general chat on tolerance and understanding.

Manicinsomniac.
In your school it is much more important that you normalise homosexuality to those children! If their parents are homophobes then they need to learn that that attitude is wrong. Some of the kids in your school are going to be gay, think about those vulnerable children not bigoted 'parents'.

I am a Christian and I believe that as most rational scientific and anecdotal evidence shows, homosexuality is not a choice, and therefore was created by God. Equally i do not believe that God would create sexual beings and expect them to either live a lie or remain celibate. There is a lot of stuff in the bible which we choose to ignore ( interesting that more is said on the place of woman, both in the OT and by Paul but 47 states that as a Christian she will not put up with the Subjucation of women!). The bible and misquoting of it has in the past been used to justify polygamy, beating children and slavery. I believe that God looks inside the heart of man and will judge appropriately on the 2 greatest commandments.

There are too many children and teens who feel misplaced guilt and confusion over their sexuality and way too many of the 'moral majority' who confuse sex with sexuality and are far too worried over what people do in bed! Some of the arguments people use against marriage equality are absolutely disgusting - it will lead to bestiality and polygamy being legalised-em, why? Another gem-teaching about homosexuality in schools will mean children being taught about BSDM, 3somes and eating poo! (again why? Straight people are just as likely to indulge in fetish type behaviour, look how popular 50 shades of Grey is.) If you are concerned about morality, then why disagree with equal marriage-there are many gay people who treat marriage with considerably more respect than hetrosexuals. Norman Tebbit announced that there is no discrimination as gay people can marry someone of the opposite sex just the same as hetrosexuals! Unbelievable!

King and King is a good book for under 7s. There is not much out there for 8-12s but for teens TJ Klune and
Jay Bell both write some really good books which concentrate as much on the relationships as the sex. Jay Bell makes a big effort to keep his prices low-Kindle editions are only £2:49 on most of his books and I can thoroughly recommend them( and I am neither gay nor a teen!) He is an American who lives in Germany with his husband of 12 years and also does some interesting YouTube videos talking about their relationship, coming out etc!

I seem to have digressed slightly!

All children need to be taught the lessons of tolerance and equality at school because as we have seen on this thread many do not get it at home.

I'm a teacher - I think it's important for children to recognise the diverse world we live in and to be taught about tolerance. There are far too many intolerant parents out there - you would not believe the complaints I got from parents when I organised a school trip to a Mosque and a Gurdrawa. "Why should our kids learn about Muslims?"

I do think children need to know there is nothing wrong with being LGBT. It's just part of life. You can add your own prejuduces at home - but school is not a place for prejudice.

Awesome post, Trockodile, thank you.

OP, you need to read this document - Stand Up For Us: Challenging Homophobia in Schools. You'll see that your discussion was entirely appropriate.

enimmead, we've had the same reactions about trips to a gurdwara and a Hindu temple. A governor actually brought it up at a full governors' meeting - i.e. some parents would like to know why Year 1 are visiting a Hindu temple, when most if them aren't Hindu? She was slapped down very quickly, I can tell you.

47to31in7days, you make me sick.

I can't think of a time when ds didn't know there were gay people tbh.

I guess the debate here shows why the OP was right to guage reactions. It's a difficult balancing act. A school and its staff have to try and negotiate a successful relationship with ALL of their parents, whether they agree with them or not. Otherwise mutiny ensures which isn't good for anyone.

All sides on this thread clearly feet very strongly - if they're not trolling of course. But I do feel that allowing others to have their views and to be able to debate calmly, allowing everyone to speak, and genuinely listening when it's their turn, is often the first step to any change.

Whatever the subject I'd be less likely to be persuaded to even consider an alternative idea if I faced a barrage of insults.

Well, 47to31in7days to quote Stephen Colbert: "I would like to read to you what the Jesus said about homosexuality, I would like to, but he never said anything about it. Evidently Jesus was so filled with rage that he was speechless."

But if you're going to follow the laws of Leviticus, where admittedly homosexuality is condemned as a sin, I hope you're faithfully following the rest of the rather charming laws Leviticus such as:

No mixing of different types of fabric,
No having sex with a woman on her period,

Disabled people cannot worship God,
Don't eat fish that doesn't have fins and scales,
Stubborn children should be stoned.

You know, all those good wholesome laws which any morally upright, committed Christian will follow to the letter? Luckily Jesus himself was not a big fan of Leviticus and the laws were later declared irrelevant:

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. - Hebrews 7:18-19.

But if you do follow Leviticus then that's just fine, just remember to keep the kids away from the scampi and the nasty homosexuals.

Thanks Gibbous!

The thing is that schools have a duty of care no matter what parents think.

This is from the 2010 equality act:

*What?s included in the Equality Act?

The act replaced previous anti-discrimination laws with a single act to make the law simpler and to remove inconsistencies. This makes the law easier for people to understand and comply with. The act also strengthened protection in some situations.

The act covers nine protected characteristics, which cannot be used as a reason to treat people unfairly. Every person has one or more of the protected characteristics, so the act protects everyone against unfair treatment. The protected characteristics are:

age
disability
gender reassignment
marriage and civil partnership
pregnancy and maternity
race
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation
The Equality Act sets out the different ways in which it is unlawful to treat someone, such as direct and indirect discrimination, harassment, victimisation and failing to make a reasonable adjustment for a disabled person.*

and that is what schools should teach. Of course if people need to ask questions or engage in reasonable debate then that is one thing but IMO it should be no more contentious than saying that schools should teach sexual or racial equality.

Sesquipedality, I entirely agree that it is important to allow everyone to speak, but I think it is very important not to encourage dc to think that it is equally legitimate to bully as not to bully. By acting as if all opinions on this matter are of equal legitimacy and value then you are implicitly saying that it's ok to decide to be homophobic and bully others for having a different family. A school, especially a school which is a public body, absolutely cannot spread the message that hatred is equally legitimate.

What the law says

"Schools have the duty to prevent and tackle all forms of bullying, including homophobic bullying and they cannot discriminate on grounds of sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation against a student or teacher.
New Government legislation means that schools have to be proactive in preventing homophobic bullying and make all children and young people feel included. The Public Duty requires all public bodies, including schools and academies, to eradicate discrimination, advance equality and foster good relations - this means preventing and tackling homophobic bullying and language and talking about different families in school."

depends what you're saying.
ok - 'there are same-sex couples'
ok - 'fred and james, mary and sue are same sex couples'
less ok - 'oooh look at those men holding hands! they must be nasty perverts!" that wouldn't be ok.
nor would 'God hates those men/women, they are couples'.
regardless of comments in holy books or from religious institutions, if God exists, and if God is responsible for the entirety of Creation, God made gay people. which, if you bear in mind what is supposed to be his attitude to the rest of his creation, suggests he loves them and would want them to be safe and happy. and if you take God seriously, it is God's role to judge, not ours.
i know, i know... that doesn't usually stop me...

None of the several primaries in my area teach pro-gay material, I have checked. Are you implying they are now OUTLAWS?

They are breaking the law if they fail to challenge the attitudes you have displayed here.

You are a bigot, 47. I resent even sharing the same forum as you. I hope to God you are not a parent in my school - and I've never, ever said that on MN.

Oh, bloody hell, he/she is dragging up the old "if you call me on being a bigot you are Christian bashing " line. Don't make me tired!