Man screaming at and rough-handling boy on way to school this morn - WIBU to call school?

[cfc]

I was getting the baby up this morning and her window was open. I heard a guy screaming at a young lad, perhaps about 6 yr's old. He was in his face shouting "just apologise to me, all you have to o is say I'm sorry Sam" so it wasn't his dad. Then he grabbed him by the front of his jacket and lifted him up in front of his face and continued shouting in his face - he also was still smoking with the ciggie hanging from his mouth.

At this point out of my window I shouted at him to stop. He just walked on, but I could hear him continuing to shout but couldn't make it out - he had a proper thick scottish accent (we don't live in Scotland).

I've heard this guy shouting before recently only. Should also mention he was walking with others Inc I think the child's mother. And there were people at the bus stop watching this whole thing. Had I been able, ie not getting a child up, and waiting for the toddler to have his morning poo (he thinks he can wipe his own bum, he can't) I'd have done more.

I think I know the school. I bet they're known to ss. Or I could wait until Monday and follow them to school if dh wouldn't mind getting into work late so i could a- mind the child or b- say to the school admin 'look that family there.

Typos - sorry on tablet.

well said spero...your post is exactly right

half of this thread has been silly nonsense instead of real positive advice and help to the OP....

I hope OP has spoken to school and done what could be done to raise awareness for the little boys sake

It is refered to the "Bystander effect".

There is a well documented case were a woman runs through the streets for over half an hour, screaming whilst being attacked, but no-one reports because they all assume that someone else has and then as time passes, they convince themselves that there cannot be a problem, because otherwise it would have been reported and dealt with.

I was not talking about serious injuries that a medical doctor should have picked up. I was talking about relatively 'minor' stuff that apparently concerned members of the public reported. However all these instances were not pulled together into a coherent whole and thus those warning signs were not examined or acted upon by the relevant professionals

Again this is nothing like that!

That was the mess it was because the professionals involved didn't do their jobs properly (for whatever reasons) as you said incidents were reported. Just they were acted upon appropriately.

I agree Rapapa. And I'm pretty sure there have been other high-profile cases where similar has happened; failure to pull together all the little pieces of information that make up the whole picture.

Hopefully, this little boy is not in such a dire situation as the Baby Ps of this world, but, at the very least, it appears he may have a parent/carer who is not coping and who could benefit from concern and advice from those who know how to do it best. Friends of mine have had involvement from SS for incidents far less serious than what the OP reports. Their purpose is to help the family, and in most cases that means trying to keep the family together and helping those who look after children to make a better job of it.

Agree birdsgotta. That incident led to some interesting experiments on the NY subway in which the public as a whole proved to be amazingly reluctant to intervene in various worrying situations.

I don't know the specifics of the Baby P case so will have to take your word for it Amberleaf...

I still feel the situation OP describes warrants reporting though.

waterlego I think this thread has also raised some interesting interpretations and perceptions around joe public's responsibility for child protection issues.

Namely if these sort of 'minor' incidents should be reported, to whom and what will happen/not happen if they are.

Can't believe idiots on this bread have argued the toss about whether you can or can't shout with a fag in your mouth and who Sam might or might not be

Small Child is lifted up by their clothes and screamed at- of course you report it

maybe Op shouldn't have said about being known to ss, but the attitudes of some posters on here beggars belief sometimes

Haven't read the whole thread. But, to those saying 'what can the school do about it?' the answer is simple. Whether there are already issues or not, the school has a child protection officer who has a duty of care to log this incident. If it is a one off, nothing more will be done (but it will remain on file). If it is adding to a bigger picture, it will be used to help keep this child safe.
Op of course you should report it to the school.

Thread not bread

When I'm cross I can't the straight

amberleaf - this is nothing like that?
how the hell do you know?
We have no idea if this boy is being physically abused or mentally abused in his own home. No idea at all .

school and ss. don't leave it. he could be dead by monday.

amberleaf - this is nothing like that?
how the hell do you know?
We have no idea if this boy is being physically abused or mentally abused in his own home. No idea at all

Erm that's not what the baby P reference was about at all so please calm down.

The baby P reference was about what happens/what is done when such things are witnessed/reported.

hello ladies, have just caught up with the thread. I didn't make it to the school, nor could I call them (and speak coherently anyway) as a migraine took me out about 12pm and a swift call to hubby was all I could manage before hitting the sack with my babies.

Thanks again for your replies.

For the record, I reiterate I didn't lie, I did not embellish. I made ones assumption and failed to listen to my own advice which is 'to assume will make an ass of u and me'. All who picked me up on it are right.

As for the rest, I have to repeat, me saying that his accent was proper thick meant just that. It wasn't unlike my own Greenock GM (I could never understand her either!). I didn't mean thick I'm the dumb sense of the word.

I will without a doubt make it down there on Monday.

I don't think worrying about a child and wondering if the school were the right people to talk about it with then asking the good people of mumsnet who actually have kids in school and know how these things work, justifies my integrity to be called into account. In the majority of abuse cases I had the misfortune to read it always started - the file I mean - with something from the school. That's why they were brought to mind, also because I knew the school and not the family.

So i cared about a strange child (disclaimer - strange as in not known to me) so sue me. Pick me apart, question my ability to hear and see an incident from 10 yards away, warn me off shouting at him to let the bairn down, you bullying fucker (which is how I got him to put him down), call me a liar, an exaggerator, a drama queen, bored, nosey. I've read enough from women on this very thread, never mind any other thread, who recalled their own childhood (fag in mouth whilst shoutkng or not - ooo am I stirring now?!) that it made me think so what - let's go down to the school and let them know.

The cynicists can tear me apart. But I won't stay out of this. We are all bound to a duty of care to those vulnerable in our society. I'm no hear no evil, see no evil monkey.

I'm a bit cross now at certain posters' questioning of my 'statement of evidence'. It was exactly, exactly, exactly as i wrote it. If you still think I should mind my own after considering that shocker, perhaps I'm not lying or embellishing, then I'm sad because it really is a sad indication of where we're headed.

This topic is another prime example of people trying to think they know more about what went on than the OP.

She saw it. You did not. Why question that.

Happens all the time to me on here because people think it can't possibly have happened that we because they can't imagine it....

Good on you OP and hope the migraine has gone.

Absolutely back, I got tha, thank you.

Troll, feeling a lot more human now - just got the hunger! Gonna raid the cereal cupboard then more sleep. Will be sorted for tomorrow x

People are absolutely deluded, have a sheltered upbringing, or have something in common with the man described by the OP if they have difficulty understanding that there is a correlation between abuse outside of the home and abuse inside of the home. Are those nit picking seriously suggesting that someone with the gumption to pick up a 6 year old by his clothes- which if done to an adult would be assault and then shout in their faces is Mary Poppins in the home?? As others have said this kind of apathy is just so grim and uncivilised!

If the op had posted she saw this and didt want to get involved she would have got flamed.

She saw a clear case of emotional and physical abuse, and is doing the correct thing by reporting it.

Absolutely you should mention it to the school.
They will record it, and will be able to build a bigger picture if other incidents are noted.

Absofookinlutely Giraffe

I saw a man pick up a 6 year old by his clothes and shout abuse in his face.
I walked away as I don't know what the boy said to antagonise him, and the man might have shouted at me.

Equally, the lack of intervention from the general public, particularly the young man and woman at the bus stop, is not testament to the OP overreacting. I think most people have been witness to some kind of aggressive behaviour in public and in equal measure have witnessed the lack of intervention from the general public. It is most likely the case that people didn't intervene within the locality because they were scared of this man not because it didn't happen!

How do you know the little boy wasn't called Sam?