To feel sorry for the Queen having to shake hands with that utter toerag Mcguinness?

[Callisto]

Former terrorist, responsible for killing goodness knows how many innocents, not to mention British troops and Lord Mountbatten (who the Queen was alledgedly very close to). McGuinness is a really nasty piece of work (who should be left to rot in prison for the rest of his days) and while I can see that we need to forgive and forget, it seems to go far above and beyond what we should expect the Queen to do.

I don't understand why the news reporting was hinting that he had kindly agreed to shake her hand, as if he is doing her a favour

Um. I am torn over this one. I totally feel as you have said above.

BUT... peace process and all that, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter etc. Mandela for example is feted worldwide but some of his actions were truly dreadful.

But individually and personally, yes I do feel sorry for the Queen that she has been finagled into this meeting and I think it will be very hard for her. I am very pleased though that it is a private meeting because I think if that photo appeared on the front pages tomorrow it would be very very difficult and I think also very inflammatory.

The Queen is an active Christian. Forgiveness is at the heart of her faith. I would find it hard to shake his hand, I'm sure the Queen does too but it can and should be done.

I feel the Queen has been poorly advised on this one.

IMO for the peace process to move on Sinn Fein need some new leaders without blood on their hands.

I felt that the Queen 'weakened' when she took his hand. She shouldn't be shaking hands with the likes of him. He's a murderer and yes, while in some peoples' eyes he should be forgiven, he should NOT be shaking hands with the Queen. Who next Bin Laden?

Who next Bin Laden?

I'd like to see that. Considering he's dead.

Isn't Bin Laden dead?

yes, sparks. He is 'dead' isn't he?

I think it's important that she does shake his hand. There won't be any blood on it at the time, no harm will come to her, but it is very important for cross border relations imo. While the IRA have behaved terribly, so too have the Brittish Army in NI, which she should be responsible for too.

I can see McGuinness' point tbh, to believe in something so strongly that you would kill for the cause ( NOT condoning at all) and to then shake hands with the leader of the the opposite side is a big turn about. I think it is a big thing to think about and does warrant discussion.

It is momentous

She is all about forgiveness as a Christian.

She is a head of state, and its a state thing, its over 14 years since the good Friday peace agreement, time to move on.

I don't perceive that the Queen has weakened at all. That must have been an incredibly difficult thing for her to do. She is a stronger woman than me to have done that, stronger than the vast majority of us I suspect.

I have a massive problem with Martin McGuiness having the level of legitimacy that he does these days, but I accept that it is necessary for the process in Ireland to move on.

Well, I think it was a good thing. It will help move the "peace process" along for those who are concerned about this type of gesture. IME those who are concerned about the "peace process" are in a minority, most people are just getting on with their lives.

I think SF spun it very well, the party meeting to agree he could do it, the big gesture on his part etc etc. Buckingham Palace doesn't do spin so SF got the publicity.

I bet in her heart it did hurt her greatly to shake hands with him. She must loathe him and everything he stands for but she will have done it for the good of the peace process etc.

Iseenodust - totally agree that there should be republican leaders who don't have blood on their hands but I'm not sure who they would be.

I can see McGuinness' point tbh, to believe in something so strongly that you would kill for the cause

I realise this is a whole other bag of rotting fish but you know - for faulty logic you've really taken the biscuit with that one! I don't much care for traffic wardens but have, as yet, resisted the urge to blow one to buggery and back.

I couldn't do what the Queen has done and I can only assume it's her faith that has given her the strength to do it. Good on her.

Oh and I say move on as someone's great grand daughter who was innocently killed by the black and tans, sent over to Ireland, republic of, who killed him for no reason other than him walking along a road.

There is a lot of history in it. There was a reason that the ira started and it was the millions of irish killed under british rule. 5 million irish dropped in the sea off boats by the english.
Bloodshed is always wrong for anyone.
The queen is a representative of england and she represents the good and bad. They were making steps towards peace from both sides. That should be respected

I kind of wished she had hit him with her handbag.

I think it would have hurt her enormously to do it; and she is a much braver, better person than I am because I wouldnt have done it. Too much blood on his hands not to mention the fact that he is a nasty arrogant little shit as well.

I hope it makes her a better person than him (which I know she is) but it still does not sit right with me.

I can't see the point at all of killing innocent people to get your point across and the shite that Mcguinness spouts is beyond belief. The IRA deliberately went for soft targets to spread terror and within their own communities as well not just the 'enemy' across the Irish Sea. They really were a despicable bunch and Mcguinness and Adams were the worst. I can't see any circumstances ever that would excuse or justify their behaviour.

Lentilly have you really likened Martin McGuinness' feelings on hundreds of years of Brittish oppression to your dislike of traffic wardens? Yes, it really must be me with skewed logic

I just want to add, if you don't know who the black and tans were, terrorists what they did etc, and the difference between old and newer IRA. I suggest you don't really know what that handshake meant for many?

I hope she wore gloves then very loudly said to her lady-in-waiting, ''oh these need washing immediately, please get me a new pair. I can't see the bloodstains but i know they are there.''

Agree Callisto.

Yeah. Course I did Formerly. Just like you suggested it's ok to kill if you hate something enough.