To feel sorry for the Queen having to shake hands with that utter toerag Mcguinness?

[Callisto]

Former terrorist, responsible for killing goodness knows how many innocents, not to mention British troops and Lord Mountbatten (who the Queen was alledgedly very close to). McGuinness is a really nasty piece of work (who should be left to rot in prison for the rest of his days) and while I can see that we need to forgive and forget, it seems to go far above and beyond what we should expect the Queen to do.

bakedcheeseysausagemeat it's attitudes like that, that take away all my hope for my son's future in this country.

When i use the word ireland i mean it to refer to the whole island. So i meant Northern Ireland primarily and the Republic to a lesser extent. Of course the impact is greater in the North but I happen to think that what effects Northern Ireland has an impact on the Republic. The two countries are linked in many ways not least in our relationship with Britain. The Queens visit to the North has been much discussed here in the Republic in the last couple of days and people are viewing the meeting with MMG as an important step. So yes I am seeing a positive effect in the Republic.

That last post was in response to Penis btw.

Both sides committed atrocities.

Bluefergie, I suspect Penis is going to be incredibly disappointed to find that you're not an English person with a bad grasp of geography

I don't care where she's from, I'd like more people to understand that "Ireland" refers to the Republic of Ireland, and the vast majority of people there couldn't give a shiny shite about whether the first minister of a neighbouring province shakes the hand of a foreign monarch. It really had no affect on the people of Ireland, the politics of Ireland etc.
Our papers are so full of it because there is only so long we can talk about house prices or football and its nearby.

That man killed my brother's best friend. He had never committed any atrocities - he was 9. We were shopping so were nowhere military. That man has never said sorry or shown any remorse. I don't care about his politics - he is a murderer and as a catholic will go to hell. And rot slowly, I hope. I am glad NI has peace but I hate that man and always will.

Well I'll have to disagree with you I'm afraid Penis. Indeed Ireland can often refer to the Republic alone but equally it is used to describe the whole island, as it is actually the name of the island.
Also I don't think its true that the vast majority of people don't give a shiny shite about this story or that it has no impact on the politics of the country. Northern Ireland is a massive part of our history and still a huge political issue. Certainly most of the people I know take more than a passing interest in it. At least it can be said that us two have an interest. Otherwise we wouldn't be bothering to post here

What do you know about Martin McGuiness OP? He represented/represents the republican and nationalist people of Ireland. The Queen represents British Imperialism.

Presumably his agreeing to shake the hand of the Queen is a huge signal that he is prepared to work towards a peaceful future - that is why she did right on shaking his hand - because of what he is saying by doing so.

Can I draw peoples attention to the fact that the Queen decorated the British soilders that killed innocent civilians on Bloody Sunday.

If Im honest the two of them repulse me, but it makes my blood boil when people think the Queen is the hard done by person in this situation.

They are both ultimately responsible for the deaths of innocent men, women and children, deaths that will not be forgotten on either side. The whole thing is a pointless excercise in my opinion. I will still see Martin MG as a terrorist and I will still the Queen as a symbol of oppression of the Irish people .

Exactly, IndieSkies.

I would say we are generally at pains to say the island of Ireland if that is what we mean, since "Ireland" is politically and legally referring only to the Republic.
But we are of course free to disagree

Completely agree with supergirl, the queen gave medals to murderers of NI citizens, she can hardly complain about shaking the hand of someone else who might have killed a few others.

The problem in Britain has always been biased, one sided reporting. Everyone remembers the stupidity of Gerry Adams being dubbed on the TV, but few people ever heard that there was a whole other side to it. It was all IRA this, IRA that, the english people I talked to in the 90's had never heard of the UVF, the Ulster Unionists, and had no concept that there was another side to it.

I feel the same Supergirl.

If she's happy to have lunch with the King of Bahrain . . . . .

I'm no fan of Martin McGuinness or any of Sinn Féin for that matter but please, the Queen isn't in need of anyone's pity.

NI is working towards a peaceful future, this includes having to do things you don't want with people you don't like.

They are both ultimately responsible for the deaths of innocent men, women and children, deaths that will not be forgotten on either side.

The Queen is not responsible, surely? She is just a figurehead without executive power.

twofurryones I have an objection to ALL religious parades, Orange or Hibernian walk.They probably won't be banned, but I have an objection to a parade celebrating a battle that happened in 1690, when William of Orange basically fought his Father in Law, King James at the Battle of the Boyne. Ridiculous. If you want to be Protestant then go to church, don't march about the streets. The Orange Order has a strict policy on not allowing their members to even step in a chapel. I have an acquaintance who grew up with a Catholic friend, ever since they were children.He joined the Orange Order and et was not allowed to attend his friend's mums funeral,because it was in a chapel.How "Christian" is that?

There is a hatred of the BNP in this country , where we are disgusted by an organisation that hates Blacks/Muslims. So am not getting why we are alllowing the Catholic hating Orangeman or the Protestant hating Hibernians.Just think of the words of The Sash.

And King Billy was Dutch, not flaming Irish :o

twofurryones how does the banning of orange parades help anyone? They really aren't my cup of tea, and I'm not looking forward to having the mini-12th go past my house in a couple of days but what is to be gained by supressing the tradditions of part of the protestant community? It's that kind of attitude that started the trouble in the first place.

Yeah twofurryones because 'live and let live' is what the ethos of Orange marches is all about.

It's called a Peace PROCESS for a reason. There's barely a politician on either side in Northern Ireland over the age of 40 who doesn't have blood on their hands one way on another. Some because they were involved with loyalist terrorists, some involved with nationalist terrorists and some with the "authorities" and "security forces" who are also guilty of terrible bloodshed. Unfortunately we have to wait for that bigoted generation to die out before we can really be free of them, galling though it is to see them governing us.
The Queen has shaken the hand of many a guilty man on the loyalist side without the hue and cry about their crimes.
This has HUGE symbolism and is a sign that despite all the best efforts of terrorists and bigots - on BOTH sides - that it is possible to leave the past where it belongs and move on. Good on them both.

Orange Marches exist in the large part to celebrate a military triumph over one religion and a continued hatred of this religion.

I'd be happy to see all religious marches banned.

We want peace. I grew up worrying every single day that my dad wouldnt come home from work. The tit-for-tat killings of innocent people, the bomb scares andbombings, the soldiers on the streets, the terrifying roadblocks. It was shit. I do not want it back. The peace process has happened, the killings have stopped, thank god. We are moving on. Shaking hands, moving on, hopefully driving another nail in the coffin of that awful war.

Angry people on this thread should stop and think. I grew up in Northern Ireland during the troubles and every step further away from that reduces the chance of the troubles starting again. Keepyour ill informed and thoughtless anger andbitterness to yourself. Northern Ireland has had enough of that, dont you think?

Everyone remembers the stupidity of Gerry Adams being dubbed on the TV, but few people ever heard that there was a whole other side to it. It was all IRA this, IRA that, the english people I talked to in the 90's had never heard of the UVF, the Ulster Unionists, and had no concept that there was another side to it

Well, the English people you were talking to can't have been paying attention, because Ian Paisley was on the radio pretty much every time the dubbed IRA voices were. English people may have been more aware of the IRA because it was the IRA that were bombing the mainland while the Unionists weren't, but as I remember there was plenty of cover of the UVF and Unionists too. In fact, there were lots of people who said at the time that even using dubbed voices for the IRA was wrong because they were too evil for their words to be repeated on the BBC (an attitude I found bizarre at the time and almost incredible now) while Ian Paisley was given a good deal of air time, so if people didn't know about that side of it, I don't think it was because of lack of media coverage.

I do agree that Ian Paisley was an utter gobshite - great advertisement for religion, not.

3littlerabbits I hope the peace in Northern Ireland continues, and am glad to see that things are moving on :). I personally want to go back to Belfast and see the Titanic exhibition. Shall avoid July and October though :o