To be fed up with my DD having to prop up the less able children

[endlesschatonthecarpet]

OK, I know I probably am being unreasonable and await a flaming! My daughter (in year 1) is very quick, very clever but not blessed with much patience! Because she is one of the top in the class she always seems to be paired with a talk partner who is finding the work more of a struggle. I completely understand that this can be useful sometimes, but it seems to happen every day and some days my DD comes hope very fed up and grumpy because she's had to "waste time". She gets what the task is once the teacher has done the initial set up and is keen to get going. This endless sitting on the carpet with whiteboards talking to another child who is not working at the same level is doing her head in! Now, I fully accept that the teacher has to consider the needs of all the children - not just my precious DD, but couldn't she at least sometimes just send the more able children off to get started while she does a bit more work with the others or pair up the bright children so they can really develop their ideas?

Obviously I've said to my DD that she needs to get on with whatever the teacher asks her to do and haven't given her any indication that I share her feelings about this practice but I do feel really frustrated on my daughter's behalf.
Anyone else feel the same or am I alone in my unreasonableness?

hawkmoon - my children go to state schools - I don't believe in private education. Been there, got the t shirt. Yes, I hope they get into the brilliant grammar school near me but all the children I know who are there went to state schools so it's by no means impossible for them to get in.

And for me, the life of a 3 year old should be about play.

I suspect we have fundamentally different views about education and child rearing :)

Just for the avoidance of doubt - I was entirely privately educated hawkmoon. My viewpoint is borne of experience. Were you?

Well from what I recall of the DCs academic selection at 3, it wasn't anything you could tutor for :) Although I have seen anxious posts from parents on MN wondering if there is tutoring available :) :)

All it involved was studying them at structured play and having a few quiet one to one chats about stuff. They can see how sophisticated their use of language is, and a bit of counting and sorting. For them, it's just like a session at nursery, nothing more.

I was often (but not always) paired with children who found lessons difficult when I was a kid. It did frustrate me and often left me feel like I was being held back, or was spending time with classmates who thought I was a teacher's pet/swot and told me as much (older than Y1 mind you).

I think there needs to be a balance, but others are right who said it can be beneficial to your DD's learning. However she also needs to be allowed to progress at HER pace sometimes.

I felt one more than one occasion that some teachers are more comfortable teaching to middle level (or perhaps they're under too much pressure).

It's your right to chat to the teacher, perhaps use some searching questions first to find out how he/she thinks your DD is progressing.

But grammar schools are completely different to the top independent schools when it comes to entrance at 11+! most pupils competing for places at grammar schools come from the state sector. I know competition for grammar places is fierce but it's just not the sane as trying for St Paul's for example.

Actually, we probably have similar views on education and child rearing. I'm a brilliant Mother and want the best for my children. And I keep an open mind (or try to, honestly) as they grow up and reach different stages. I'm sure you do too.

The life of a three year old should be about play. I quite agree. There's no preparation to be done for 3+ assessments. In fact the children who are "prepared" often don't get in because schools want to see who the child really is, not hear a precocious 3 year old recite numbers in French (or whatever).

I'm not a pushy parent. They exist. They can be horrible. I meet plenty in my DSD's (state) school playground.

Yes I was. From 3 to 18. And at what was then the top girl's school in the country (and still is I believe).

There's a rationale behind developing pupil talk in classrooms, and it isn't about using primary school children as an unofficial TA.

Here for example.

Talking helps to develop reasoning, even if you are talking to someone who is not of the same ability as you. I am a secondary teacher and do lots of talking activities, like and mixed ability. It's also excellent for helping the students to assess their own understanding.

Although actually, our education background has sod all to do with the op. Poor op wading through this mass of tangents...

It's an interesting discussion though :)

No, I know grammars aren't the same as 'top' independents. I've just seen a bit of dodgy wheeler-dealing in my time. And a good education is no guarantee of anything. You know that Shane McGowan went to Westminster, don't you? :o

Just goes to show that Westminster doesn't churn out identical boffins (or something...)

Peachy - good, thoughtful post.

Just to chip in to Hawkmoon and Dowagers discussion (sorry - hope that's okay) I was state educated from 4-18. I'll definitely privately educate my kids from 11+ and probably from 4 - as a result of my experiences and what I remember as "striving to be average". Everything was geared to scraping a pass, the G&T provision consisted of keeping the kids in at break/lunchtimes to do logic puzzles (any wonder is was unfashionable to be bright)? Incidentally all presided over by the Tories which is virtually where we're at now.

I visited DD's (independent) nursery's follow-on pre-prep last Saturday at their fete and actually felt tearful at how lovely it was and how I'd have loved to have gone there.

You're both obviously completely comfortable with your respective choices for your kids (as am I) but I wanted to offer the counter to the "been there and got the t-shirt" experience.

Gosh, what a lot of responses and very interesting reading. I appreciate all the answers and have certainly taken on board all that has been said about the benefits of talk patners at different levels. If talk partners were being assigneed randomly in my daughters class then I can totally see the benefit and if she didn't enjoy tha ttime then I think she could just lump it!

What I don't appreciate are the comments about my daugher "throwing a strop" or needing to learn kindness. She's six. You don't know her and there is no need for such hurtful comments. Actually she's a lovely sociable girl and very kind. She hasn't thrown a strop at all and is good friends with some of the people she's been talk partners with. She does, however come home most days and express frustration that she hasn't done as well at her work as she'd like to because she hasn't been able to get going. I know that the children she's regularly partnered with are struggling because I chat to their parents and they tell me that they are. I don't question my daughter about this every day because I don't want her thinking its a big thing, but I can't remember her ever saying she's been partnered with the other very bright children in her class.

I also totally accept the point that children all develop at different rates and that the children who are struggling now may end up being brighter or more succesful than my daughter in the long term. That may well be the case, but I care about what's happening to my daugher now. I'm not a pushy parent at all, but I do want my daughter to have a positive experience at school and in this respect I do feel she's being held back.

Your daughter sounds lovely, OP.

FWIW she sounds a lot more patient than mine, who when asked to do the teaming up thing, did it once and then declared she wasn't doing it again. Flatly refused.

Don't think there's anything much you can do about it though, OP. Just tell your daughter she's doing well and is being so good at being supportive and stuff. Don't show any negativity yourself.

yanbu, it's ridiculous that classes aren't streamed on ability. Children have the right to be intellectually challenged in the classroom. Putting children in classes where they vary so much leaves the not very smart ones unable to keep up and the clever ones bored to death. No wonder so many kids have behavioural problems in school, they're not learning anything so they're bored and play up.

As for people justifying it on the basis of character building, there are lots of things you can do to build character, turning a child off education by refusing to teach them at their level is not one of them. This is more likely to build resentment than character.

Thanks herethere

I am living under the mantra of "keep an open mind" when it comes to the children's education. But from 11+ I'm struggling to consider my local (London) comprehensive.

I want my children to mix well with everyone. I also want them to be happy and enjoy their childhood. I loved my prep school. I want the same for my children - it's just about working out which school is the best fit for them.

"yanbu, it's ridiculous that classes aren't streamed on ability"

At 6?

Thank you hopefullyrecovering. It probably doesn't come across in my original post but actually kindness is the thing I would be most proud of in my children so it is hurtful when people glibly say that she needs to learn kindness and social skills while knowing nothing about her. I make no apologies for the fact that to me she is the most important person in her class. I want her to be happy and to enjoy school and because she's bright enjoying school means that she needs to feel stretched.

Hello op, glad you're back! I'm sure your daughter is lovely - horrid for anyone to imply otherwise. Do talk to her teacher - hopefully that will offer some reassurance (and it might make the teacher re-think her strategy!). Hope it goes well!

seeker yes, at 6. Or do you think 6 year olds have identical abilities?!

In my DSD's reception class there is a boy who is reading The BFG on his own. Another boy struggles with very basic words (he's been tested for dyslexia and that's not the problem. He's just "not very bright" as his parents cheerfully say. He's a lovely boy, they're trying really hard to help his reading but they're proud of him for a multitude of other reasons).

Anecdotal, but gives an insight into why streaming might be a god idea from the beginning...

Or even a good idea...!

Too late, might have to bow out now

But they are taught on ability tables- I've never known a school that doesn't. Formal streaming isn't necessary.

There are a lot of reasons why a reception aged child could be struggling with basic words without being dyslexic. To label a 4 year old "not very bright" is disgraceful and if that is what the poor lad is hearing form his parents from the age of 4 then we will soon give up trying.

Jeez, being paired for small chunks of carpet time does not hold children back. They go to their table and then do their (differentiated) work.

Some really MC angst and misconception on this thread

That wasn't directed at you, BTW OP, although I still maintain your use of "prop up" when talking about 6 year olds was mis-judged.