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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To consider gina?

288 replies

Pickles77 · 22/06/2012 18:52

Okay AIBU to consider buying a gina ford book? I have the mumsnet baby book which is great... But got the impression most mumsnetters don't approve of gina ford? I'm not sure I will, I'm just intrigued by the fuss? And want to be the best mum
I can be...

OP posts:
CherryBlossom27 · 24/06/2012 08:42

I've not actually read the book, but I think it's good to have a rough routine to work towards.

I've got to bed time at 7pm, wake up at 7am. I'm trying to stretch DS back to 4 hourly bottles and have introduced 3 solid meals a day.

I found it helped having a routine early on as I knew what to do and if DS was crying it was a good way to break the routine of crying, e.g Ahh he's due a feed/nap.

All babies and parents are different so do what suits you!

Rockpool · 24/06/2012 08:46

I too believe that the process of learning how to meet and understand your babies needs is an important part of education in motherhood.

I learnt pretty quick that all of my 3 needed sleep,regular feeds and a mummy who had had a decent nights sleep.Having a sobbing,stressed,resentful and exhausted mummy unable to drive or get on with running a house,feeding,cooking,washing did them no good.

My instincts were spot on.As I said previously 3 days in all of us were 200% happier,contented and having our needs met.

I am the mother of 3 and share Gina's view as do thousands and maybe millions of other mothers soooooo clearly the Gina way suits many who have relationships with babies.

Couldn't give a stuff what other mothers around the world would think. It's my baby,my life and my experience.I live in the West,my babies are Western babies not those being brought up in developing countries.

Who said the developing country way is the correct way?There are plenty of things I'm sure I could question re the raising of babies/children in developing countries an example being the raising of many girls to believe they need to marry young which then leads to them suffering hideous internal injuries in childbirth at too young an age which result in life long suffering.Am I supposed to aspire to that for my dd?

I parent the way I feel comfortable and which suits my babies,my life and my life experience.If you or anybody else has a problem with that I quite frankly couldn't give a damn.

fivefoottwowitheyesofblue · 24/06/2012 08:51

It worked for me and my dc. I would say though that you have to be an organised sort of person to begin with.

Good luck and enjoy Smile

QueenKong · 24/06/2012 09:21

Jeeesh, Rockpool - defensive much?

OP, I was recommended her book before having DS and read it while pregnant. It all seemed like very sensible advice at that point. But then DS arrived.

No-one can prepare you for how you personally are going to feel. I had a loooong labour and difficult birth and was consequently exhausted. I couldn't have stuck to her routine if I'd tried, I just wanted to lie in bed with DS, feeding and napping together on and off 24/7 while DH brought me sustenance. I also could not (and cannot) simply bear to hear DS cry even for a minute. I had no idea I would feel so, i guess, primal about it or that it would be so painful for me to hear him upset. Had I tried to implement GF's routine with DS it would have involved crying, he hated his cot/Moses basket passionately and would only sleep on me or DH. I've no doubt some babies thoughwould snap right into a routine and be happy as larry.

So no harm in reading up, but wait and see what you win in the baby lottery, stay flexible and go with whatever feels right for you and your baby.

Rockpool · 24/06/2012 09:38

Defensive nope, just replying to a post and correcting yet another incorrect assumption re GF,one is allowed to do that on a free and open forum .Not keen on being told show I "should" parent to be frank.

There are masses of parenting books,newspaper articles and sites. Yes we really shouldn't spend hours wasting time worrying over the hoards of studies,blown up media stories,books etc that bombard mums today continuously through childhood. However there is a lot of useful information out there which can make parenting easier.

It's up to us to pick,choose and ignore according to our needs, lives and style of parent. It's not ok to critcise or put down parenting styles you don't like or know little about just because it's not your thing.I'd rather eat my own hair than do AP,feeding on demand and plenty of other things,however if it suits other people makes them happy and doesn't even impact my life it's not for me to comment or criticise or to make false allegations.

KatAndKit · 24/06/2012 09:47

My baby seems so much happier now his day is more structured. reading gina's book helped me to understand how long he can stay awake for and how much sleep he needs. I ignored a lot of the rest of it, I am happy for him to take some of his naps in a sling rather than in bed, and I don't leave him to settle himself if he is crying, I let him sleep on me if necessary. I am not bothered about rods for my back, I just take the easiest path to make sure he is asleep two hours from when he last woke up. This excellent advice is helping me to avoid the meltdowns that were happening recently. I also don't need gina to tell me when to change his nappy, I can work that out for myself.
You don't have to choose a style of parenting and nail your colours to its mast. You can read all sorts of different advice and try things out and learn what works for you and your baby. Gina's nap times, with a bit of flexibility, are working for me at the moment. However, popping him in his cot fully awake would not have a hope in hell of working here with my velcro baby so I am not doing that. Nowhere in the book does it say "you must do everything to the letter or else".

I also don't think any routine would have worked in the newborn weeks as surely babies that small don't really have a body clock yet and don't differentiate day and night sleep. I think in the first month you just have to go with the flow.

Whirliwig72 · 24/06/2012 11:14

I don't personally like her books as I don't think they are very conducive to establishing successful breast feeding but each to their own.

olimpia · 24/06/2012 11:33

Well you Gina ladies can you explain to me how you get your baby to sleep at a certain time and for an exact period of time every day?
Ds3 has his owns loose routine that he's found himself but being only human some mornings he goes down at 10 abd sone mornings at 11. Sometimes he naps for 1 hour and some others 1 1/2 or even 2 like this morning. What's wrong with that? And how do you get them to strict to YOUR schedule?
By the way he is NOT a poor sleeper at night like some of she said that he had to be!

threeleftfeet · 24/06/2012 11:36

The Baby Whisperer was mentioned upthread too.

I'm not keen on that one either! It also goes agains natural instincts IMO.

It promotes "EASY" which stands for Eat, Activity, Sleep, You-time".

IMO it should be ESYA! (Am I being overly cynical to imagine that they went with the order EASY partly because - well - it spells easy and therefore sells more books?!)

Cynicism aside, this simply wouldn't have worked on DS. Like many (most?) breastfed children, he would fall asleep while BFing. We would then put him down for a nap. Trying to get him to do an activity while he felt so drowsy would have been nuts! BF is designed by nature to make your baby tired, why on earth would you want to fight it? I t makes no sense to me!

In fact we didn't follow any kind of routine, but we fell into one naturally. Here's what we did: DS fed on demand. While breastfeeding, he'd fall sleep, naturally (no coaxing from anyone). We'd put him in a carry-cot (like a modern moses basket) and we'd take him with us - asleep - wherever we went. When he woke up we'd pick him up and play with him, until the next time he asked for food, I'd then feed him and he'd fall asleep.

In the daytime when he napped we just carried on around him - we didn't keep the noise down or dim the lights. When he slept at night, we put him in our bedroom with us, lights off. He soon started sleeping more at night and developed his own routine. I couldn't tell you what time though as we hardly ever even looked at the clock!

It worked very well for us, and one of the major differences between us and my GF-following friends is that I wasn't stressed! They on the other hand were, very much so! I can't say whether this was because of our babies or our parenting methods. What I can say with certainty was I would have been very stressed if I'd tried to follow a routine instead of going with the flow. Just the thought of it stresses me out!

The only thing I would change for next time is to use a wrap around sling from the beginning - I didn't discover them till fairly late last time, but they're brilliant!

If you are a fairly laid back person and your baby sleeps when fed, I'd strongly suggest trying going with the flow, not even looking at the clock and simply enjoying your baby.

A friend gave me a great bit of advice when my baby was born. If you manage to do one things each day, you're doing amazingly well! Simple things like getting out of the house, going to the shops (nightmare the first few times!!) or meeting friends become difficult when you first have a baby as they throw up a whole new set of logistics to think about (car seat / nappies / spare clothes / buggy etc etc) and it takes a but of practice. If I'd also been worried about clock-watching if would have driven me bananas!

If however you are the kind of person who thrives on structure and routine, then set routines are probably worth a try (although please, please don't think you've failed if it doesn't work for you!)

GnocchiNineDoors · 24/06/2012 11:37

I arrange dds naps according to GFs advised 'awake time' so she says at X age dcs should be awake roughly one hour ao one hour after dd wakes (no matter how long she slept) she went back down, awake, to fall asleep on her own.

Shes now 6mo so we do 2.5hrs awake time before the next nap.

mummybare · 24/06/2012 11:50

I couldn't agree more KatAndKit - it is possible to pick and choose, not just from different books, but from different parenting 'styles'. It's not as though you have to decide between having your baby strapped to your boob 24/7 or leaving him/her to cry in a dark room for hours on end!

I love the sling, love snuggling with my 7-week-old DD and wouldn't dream of withholding milk ever, but I still thing there is merit in a lot of what Gina says. (In fact, I think it's in some ways less damaging for the breastfeeding mum than The Baby Whisperer...) Okay, it's very prescriptive, but it's up to the reader how closely they want to follow it.

I do wonder how many of the critics on here have actually read it. I was shocked when I discovered the rest of my NCT class were all following it, and read it out of curiosity, fully expecting to be extremely critical. But I actually got quite a lot from it and, while I'm not really following the routines, DD is having longer, better quality naps and longer, better quality feeds, going to bed at 7 (most days) and only waking once or twice a night after a 'dream feed' before we go to bed. I don't feel the need for a rigid structure during e day, but ensuring she doesn't get overtired/overstimulated and knows the difference between day and night has undoubtedly saved us a lot of heartache at bedtime and given us a chance to rest and regroup in the evenings.

Anyway, I'm waffling now but I would say, OP, read widely and with an open mind and you will find your own way.

Congratulations on your baby x

YoulllaughAboutItOneDay · 24/06/2012 12:39

I think one important thing to realise when you discuss Gina Ford, is that some people are effectively discussing a different book to others. I have read the original (1999?) edition and the revised (2006 ish?) one, both from the library. The original one I found personally very hardcore and upsetting. I am happy to be put right by someone who has it in front of them, but I seem to remember lots of stuff about no eye contact at night, controlled crying from rather early, and lots of very strict 'eat a piece of toast at 7.15 exactly' stuff. The revised edition was nowhere near as strict, and (also iirc) introduced all the recommendations about adding extra feeds if the baby was actually hungry. I think in that respect it has improved a lot since the original.

Also, I think it's important to respect that any perspective on this type of thing is affected by the personality of two people- the mother and the baby (three if it is twins). By way of anecdote, I have two friends who hired the same maternity nurse around three years ago. Both are the 'like organisation, need my sleep' types and the nurse introduced both to a broadly Gina routine. One baby slotted in easily and quickly became the proverbial contended baby. The other hated it. When the nurse left the baby was 'in the routine' but it never stuck, and there was much crying for all involved. After about a miserable month my friend ditched it and went completely the other way - co-sleeping, slinging all the time, feeding on demand. Cue happy contended little baby. They both wanted to be routine parents, but it only suited one of the babies.

That's why I am strongly of the view that you try things on for size and see what fits your family.

LittleWaveyLines · 24/06/2012 12:45

Here here!

threeleftfeet · 24/06/2012 12:52

"I do wonder how many of the critics on here have actually read it."

I've read it cover to cover. I still have it actually, because I can't bring myself to give it to a charity shop: a friend who tried it and "failed" (i.e. it just didn't suit her baby) felt so stressed by it all I don't want to risk inflicting that kind of stress on anyone else! And I can't bring myself to actually throw away a book. So it sits in my shelf still!

KatAndKit · 24/06/2012 13:29

A book can only inflict stress on you if you read it with the attitude that everything the author has written is gospel truth and must be rigidly followed. If you read a book with the attitude "this is one possible idea that may or may not help me, I will try it and see and if it doesn't suit me or my baby I will try something else" then I fail to see how it can stress you so much.

monkeymoma · 24/06/2012 13:37

"A book can only inflict stress on you if you read it with the attitude that everything the author has written is gospel truth and must be rigidly followed."

I think that is the wrong frame of mind to read ANY parenting book, be it GF or an AP one, I think if you are in that frame of mind then all kinds of things can go wrong!
TBH I don't even read the Gospels THEMELVES and take them literally - I take the lesson I need if it'll improve my wellbeing

threeleftfeet · 24/06/2012 13:43

That's what irks me so much about Gina. She doesn't acknowledge that her approach is one of many. She constantly reinforces the message that if you don't follow her rules that you're making a rod for your own back.

Why does she chose to take that approach? It's bound to cause stress to some new mothers for whom the approach doesn't work. Feeling like a failure because you can't do it is a fairly common experience after trying her methods AFAIK.

monkeymoma · 24/06/2012 13:49

"That's what irks me so much about Gina. She doesn't acknowledge that her approach is one of many"

and who does? there are many AP type resources that say you are damaging your child if you do otherwise!

its up to you to take what you want from them all

flowery · 24/06/2012 14:00

It worked well for DS1. We were feeling a bit 'lost' when he was a few weeks old, and needed something to tell us what to do a bit. We spent a few days writing down everything he did, and found he was actually pretty close to her routine anyway. We put him into it, and it helped enormously.

Lots of people disagree with it, but I also find lots of people think it involves leaving a screaming baby hungry because it's not officially feed time. Gina makes it very clear that regardless of routine, a hungry baby should always be fed.

For DS2 it was never going to work as it is quite restrictive and with a 2.6 yo to deal with also, DS2 had to be more flexible. He settled himself into a more relaxed routine, helped by the fact that we were more confident as parents as well.

But it was brilliant for DS1 especially in the early days.

olimpia · 24/06/2012 14:09

flowery well then what's the point of Gina if, in your own words, it was so restrictive that you chose not to follow it with DS2 even of you beloved in it?

olimpia · 24/06/2012 14:10

*even though you believed in it

monkeymoma · 24/06/2012 14:14

its not about believing in it blindly olimpia, Its not a "faith", its just giving it a go if you think it'll suit your circumstances at the time and if it work for a particular child, using it!

It worked for DS1, I believe it works for some, I have no idea if it'll work for the bump, I plan to read up on everything again so that I can find whatever works for DC2, it might be GF it might not

BartletForAmerica · 24/06/2012 14:21

She has also written one for people with babies and toddlers, stressing that it doesn't need to be restrictive and that naps are going to have to be fitted round school runs etc.

I didn't find Gina restrictive at all. I found a routine really helpful as a basis, so that we could 'break' the routine when we wanted or needed to, knowing that things would settle back into that working routine.

Also, you can't take any book (other than the Bible!) as Gospel truth. Pick the bits that work for you and your babies and your family and your life. AP books can be very judgemental about anyone who doesn't want to do it that way, so they are not flawless either!

mummybare · 24/06/2012 14:55

Ahh, I didn't realise there was such a difference between the editions. I have only read the latest one, which possibly answers a lot of the criticism she received for the first. (Although she does still recommend leaving a baby to cry for 'only' 10-12 minutes, which I would NEVER do, but as I say, you can ignore the stuff that's not for you.)

schroedingersdodo · 24/06/2012 15:02

Shag I'm also from the developing world and find all this obsession about getting tiny babies/children independent so early a bit unnatural. They're not supposed to be independent.

(although I see that people in my home country usually have lots of help with children, so they can take breaks, whereas in the UK lots of mums have to do everything by themselves all or most of the time. I think it's not as much about "time is money" but about women being desperate for a rest)