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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To consider gina?

288 replies

Pickles77 · 22/06/2012 18:52

Okay AIBU to consider buying a gina ford book? I have the mumsnet baby book which is great... But got the impression most mumsnetters don't approve of gina ford? I'm not sure I will, I'm just intrigued by the fuss? And want to be the best mum
I can be...

OP posts:

monkeymoma · 25/06/2012 19:48

exactly BFA, GF taught me how to get my sleepy baby to wake and actually feed properly at regular periods so he was satisfied and I was keeping my supply up, rather than leaving him till he demanded as many recommended which would have meant 5/6 hr gap, then cluster feed, then 5/6 hr gap and so on

"You obviously managed to breastfeed despite following advice to space feeds"- the advice that would have meant more space between feeds was the advice others were giving me to just feed on demand!

Declutterbug · 25/06/2012 20:11

3 hours is a long interval for a young breastfed baby. How many mums do you think read 'at least' every 3 hrs and interpret that as 'babies should be fed every 3 hrs'? I have met lots of people who think this.

If a newborn baby is so sleepy it's not waking for at least 8 feeds every 24hrs, then the input of a midwife may be needed. Certainly good practice would be to keep it skin-to-skin, offer the breast very frequently (every hour or two) and carefully watch for other signs that all is well (i.e. quantity, frequency and colour of poo & wee, and after the first few days weight).

A newborn sleeping 5-6hrs more than once in a 24hr period and then causing the mum pain on feeding is a potentially a very serious cause for concern -they could be at risk of dehydration. Advising someone in such a situation simply to feed the baby 3hrly might well not help if that baby is ill or not able to transfer milk effectively (eg because of tongue tie).

I am really not sure why you think it's helpful to extrapolate from individual examples? I am really glad you found something that worked for you as individuals and that your babies were fine. This does not mean that this advice is broadly applicable or sensible .

Declutterbug · 25/06/2012 20:13

Many many mums also mis-interpret the way some HCPs use the word "demand" in relation to breastfeeding. A cue to feed a breastfed newborn is much much more subtle than screaming. See here.

If a baby is asleep swaddled in a cot, or even sleeping in a bassinet away from mum, these cues are easily missed.

monkeymoma · 25/06/2012 20:16

you keep commenting on my experience, sleeping 5 hrs between feeds is very common for sleepy jaundiced babies. 3 hrs is a shorter gap then the 5 hr gap we'ld have between feeds otherwise!

GF was in line with what the docs advised (but they didn't advice HOW to get him to wake up and do it like GF did!)
EVERY BF helpline and group told me to feed on demand, there is an INCORRECT assumption that on demand feeding = feeding more than on a routine, it VERY OFTEN ISN'T

BartletForAmerica · 25/06/2012 20:24

I had the same problem. DS was jaundiced and very sleepy so we had to make sure that he fed every 3 hours at least. If I hadn't woken him, he would have stayed sleeping for goodness knows how long. I made sure I set alarms overnight to make sure we got up for him to feed.

This is a remarkable patronising sentence: "I am really not sure why you think it's helpful to extrapolate from individual examples? I am really glad you found something that worked for you as individuals and that your babies were fine. This does not mean that this advice is broadly applicable or sensible."

We keep explaining to you that the advice is: "Feed your baby on demand, making sure you feed him/her at least every 3 hours to establish breastfeeding. What is not "broadly applicable or sensible" about that?

Declutterbug · 25/06/2012 20:29

I can see why advising you to feed every 3hrs was better than the every 5-6 hrs your baby woke. I am not disputing this . Many newborns are very sleepy, and feeding on cue does not mean regularly allowing a baby to sleep for long periods (i.e. 3hrs plus). That is a cause for concern in a newborn, and should be a red flag to anyone trained in breastfeeding that there may be problems that require further investigation. See more info on the link I posted.

Doctors quite often advocate 3hrly feeding schedules. Doctors also quite often, sadly, know very little about breastfeeding because many will have received as little as 1hr or less tuition on the subject many years earlier .

I am sorry you did not find the help you were given at groups and on the helplines useful. The way the term 'demand' feeding was used and what you understood it to mean is certainly not right. Did you complain? This is the only way the people you encountered can learn to improve their practice .

I am not in any way trying to deny your experience or that this book was helpful to you and may in fact have saved your breastfeeding relationship. I am saying that in other very common scenarios the broad-brush advice contained in the book under discussion would not lead to the same outcome as thankfully happened in your case.

Declutterbug · 25/06/2012 20:31

Bartlet -what I am trying to get at is that for many babies, every 3hrs is not frequent enough to establish feeding, yet this is how many mothers interpret what is said.

Declutterbug · 25/06/2012 20:32

And i am sorry you think I'm being patronising. That was not my intention at all

monkeymoma · 25/06/2012 20:35

"Bartlet -what I am trying to get at is that for many babies, every 3hrs is not frequent enough to establish feeding, yet this is how many mothers interpret what is said"

eugh SHE DOES NOT SAY YOU STRETCH it out to 3 hrs and refuse a newborn feeds if demanded earlier, she says no LONGER than 3 hours, exactly the same advice as baby whisperer. And very useful advice for a clueless new mum who keeps hearing things like "feed on demand" and "never wake a sleeping baby"

If people only read the example routines and not the explanations (or if they haven't read it at all and get it second/third/forth hand) then it is their own fault that they missinterpret it, not the fault of the book!

Declutterbug · 25/06/2012 20:44

I didn't say she said stretch it out to 3hrs. For some babies being fed only every 3hrs will be insufficient, especially if mum is also sore, or that baby is not in fact feeding actively or well when it is feeding. Yet a mum might take reassurance that as long as they feed baby every 3hrs all is fine. Some of these babies will not 'demand' more frequent feeds. The timings given in this book suggest these babies will all be fine.

I give up. Maybe one of the breastfeeding experts will come along soon and explain, as I think I'm failing to make myself understood and it's annoying you, sorry. Not my intention at all.

monkeymoma · 25/06/2012 21:04

nnnoooo GF doesn't say that any wee feed is enough so long as it's every 3 hrs, have you read it or just flicked to an example routine? She gives loads of advice about how to give good long feeds, as opposed to not actively feeding, she very much focuses on the quality of the feeds too

Declutterbug · 25/06/2012 21:06

Yes, I have read it. I am aware of what it covers, as well as what it does not.

We will have to agree to disagree I think.

girliefriend · 26/06/2012 21:44

Just to stir it up...

demand feeding = demanding baby

definately have to agree to disagree, another mum here who had a very sleepy jaundiced and traumatised baby (horrific birth, in scbu for a week etc) and because of Gina I was able despite every odd being against me bf for nearly a year - yay me!!!!

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