To consider gina?

[Pickles77]

Okay AIBU to consider buying a gina ford book? I have the mumsnet baby book which is great... But got the impression most mumsnetters don't approve of gina ford? I'm not sure I will, I'm just intrigued by the fuss? And want to be the best mum
I can be...

I don't remember ever aiming at "independence" - how is that even possible for a baby? I was responsible for keeping him rested and fed and cared for and happy - hadn't a clue how to do that without advice though!

for me it was about keeping him sufficiently rested and full-tummed so that he didn't get unmanageably over tired or over hungry, GF was about meeting those needs before they became desperate for them

always have a good look at how someone's children have turned out before taking their advice.

It's not a question of 'believing in it'. The 'point of it' for us was that it worked really really well for us and for DS1 at the time. It is a bit restrictive but with one baby and with me not working that was no problem and the benefits outweighed the slight inconveniences.

With DS2 we needed more flexibility. We had a toddler to consider as well, I was working, our circumstances were different, and he was a very different baby as well. A far more relaxed routine suited him better so we went with it rather than try and force him into something that wasn't right for him or us at the time.

Depends on how ocd you are. If you can take the principles without taking it literally, it might be helpful. We had 11-7 stretches by 7 weeks and I really do think it was down to the baby liking G's methods, which seem to involve clever juggling of timetables to try and get the longest stretch of sleep between 12 and 6, as quickly as possible.

We took advantage of DD being an amazing feeder and 'tanked her up' with all the milk she could hold between 7am and 11pm. She gained weight very fast, which seems to be the idea.

One thing - we were told DD wouldn't drink beyond what she needed. But looking at her growth chart, I do wonder if the tanking up was a bit overenthusiastic...
Ps She's also good for swaddling advice.

Real question: what do you Gina mothers do when it's nap time, the child is in the cot, but doesn't want to sleep? Suppose the child wants to play or to be held, and is not tired at all?

(that would happen to DS all the time, hence the question)

tbh, Schro, the baby gets used to the cue to sleep. If since birth they've always been swaddled, laid down, shushed and stroked or sung a certain song or whatever you do to associate them with sleep time then by doing those things they go to sleep.

If I do my usual routine when putting dd down (bearing in mind I KNOW how long she can stand to be awake for) 99 times out of 100 she goes to sleep.

That one time, I get her up, play with her for half an hour then put her back.

With Gina, you don't really put the child to bed unless you know they are entering their 'tired time'. I jiggle naps etc round to ensure that tired time is at bedtime. DD goes to sleep at 6.30pm so at the latest, I make sure she's awake at 4.30pm as I know 2-2.5 hours awake time.

My baby NEVER got used to cues to sleep whatsoever. In the beginning I thought I could have a routine, so I did all these things, and he just happily ignored them all. It was frustrating, as by that time I was trying to find my way and still believed a bit on the "experts."

If it works so well, why do we see so many mothers using controlled crying or other crying techniques? (including the "child screaming in covered pram" I see a lot, or the "child left to cry for hours in the cot in a 12 hour flight because parents have to be consistent" I had to witness once?)

schro do you interview all these parents you see about doing this? how do you know that the children screaming in prams aren't colic or reflux babies that cry even if held or being fed or whatever and at some point the mothers have to just put them in the pram and go out and get more nappies or get some fresh air to stop herself from going completely insane?

all the people I know who always have a covered pram are just a bit over paranoid about ANY sun getting on the babies

you seem to be projecting motives onto a lot of things your observing but there are many reasons why a baby might be screaming in a covered pram and the mum is marching on (maybe to boots to buy infacol!)

I used a "relaxed version" as another poster said. My DD literally settled as soon as I started on the feeding sleeping routine. Later though she was up alot in the night and i just kind of got on with it. It's not a cure all but it did help me to make sense of the sort of chaos. I know many people think it is awful, most of my friends do actually but it was the only way I could cope. I don't believe in all of the stupid things she writes though. I remember reading "never buy a rocking chair, you will be rocking your child to sleep forever"!!!!

I always thought I would be a really laid back mum without routines etc but I really wasn't. i feel a bit sad about that tbh.

monkeymoma, I don't think the couple who let a tiny baby cry for hours in the flight was trying to get infacol or some fresh air. When they were told they had to hold the baby because there was a turbulence coming, they just complained and didn't want to.

A crying child may have colic or reflux, but refusing to hold a child in pain is a bit hard to understand in my opinion. I see babies (covered in blankets or not) crying in cafes and restaurants (no sun!), while the mums are just chatting away.

I may be projecting in some cases, but not in all of them.

I don't doubt the routine thing works in some cases, but if the "one size" fitted all, why would there be so many mothers doing controlled crying?

"A crying child may have colic or reflux, but refusing to hold a child in pain is a bit hard to understand in my opinion. I see babies (covered in blankets or not) crying in cafes and restaurants (no sun!), while the mums are just chatting away"

yeah I KNOW women who do that, but I actually KNOW them so know that they spend all of most days at home holding a screaming inconsolable refluxey/colicey baby and when they DO get the courage to get out and put up with all the judgey stares from people who think that there is something magic they could do to stop their crying baby cry, yeah they leave it to cry while they have half an hour to talk to friend about it and just get out of the house so that they don't throw themselves under a bus!

cause sometimes some babies cry whether held or not, and sometimes for sanity sake mums have to take a break from the relentlessness of trying to comfort a baby that cries whatever they do!

I like it as a bit of a reference guide, when I haven't a clue what to do next, have a look what Gina says and adapt to fit my DS. Really helpful when taken with a pinch of salt. Baby Whisperer on the other hand is awesome!

I like the Contented Little Baby book. I read bits of it daily. The important thing with this book is to not get too bogged down with the routines and exact times. The routine for an 8 week old baby (my LO is 9 weeks) is about 4 pages long. I've re-written it into a condensed version that fits on an a5 page.
It's good for timings etc, like babies get tired within two hours of waking up, so if they wake at 7am, they'll need a nap at 9am.

(runs and hides)

Exactly what EasilyBored said! Baby whisperer has helped with both of mine even though they were very different as babies, but I only ever did what I felt suited..I never read GF tho

I don't think there is something magic they could do, I just don't understand why they don't let the child cry WHILE being held! I suppose suffering from colic in your mum's arms (or in a sling) might be less bad than alone in a pram?

(really, it's not a judgement, I just absolutely don't get it!)

Because they do that alone 23 hours a day, 24 most days
when they pluck up the courage to go out with a crying baby and all the looks that involves they do so to clear their heads to prepare themselves for an evening of holding a crying unconsolable baby for HOURS

can you really not imagine how soul destroying that can be and how sometimes you either have to put it down or you'll actually flip!

and they need to eat/rehydrate to do that too

colicey/refluxey babies don't sit nicely on your lap either they arch their backs and push and squirm - very hard to have a much needed drink, especially if it's hot, while holding a baby who is doing that!

schroedingersdodo - if my LO is really refusing to sleep, then he comes and sits on my lap until he does fall asleep. I've been using it since week one, and it's been very helpful for us as a family.
The sleep cues thing is good too - he knows his nursery is a quiet, calm place. We sit and I'll read a book softly to him while he has his 7pm feed, and he knows it's time for sleep. If I have to go back to settle him more than 3 times, chances are that he won't fall asleep in his cot, so I'll bring him in with us in the living room until he falls asleep on my lap.

Some of her advice is odd though...only buy baby things in white, so you can wash them all together on a hot wash...but I want to dress my baby in pretty things!!!

Well, monkeymoma, probably that's the case of some of these mothers I've seen. I've never had a colicky baby - so far - so I never thought of all that. But I've also spoken to mums who are just unresponsive - believe me, they exist as well.

Anyway, since the beginning what I wanted to say is that following a baby guru to the letter IMO won't help the connection between mum and baby, or help the mother develop her intuition. Doesn't matter if it's Gina Ford or Dr Sears.

(and I'm going now, sorry for the thread hijack!)

SarryB, your method sounds lovely. It's hard for me to believe the whole process can be so peaceful for some people. But it also convinces me that I wasn't doing it wrong - it's just that some methods don't work with everyone and I think I've just had a baby who didn't like to sleep!

He fought sleep like crazy since he was 2 months old - and still does it, at 2yo! The whole "sleep cues" never worked for us - he only sleeps when he is absolutely exhausted! (and leaving him to settle NEVER worked for us. He just didn't settle - simple as that. Insisting in following a "method" would have been simply cruel in our case)

I've spoken to loads and loads of people and in the end accepted some children are just like that. I'm pg with DS2 and hoping for a better sleeper.

I also picked what I liked out of the book and adapted it to my children. Every child is different, every mum is different and every family is different. Just try stuff and see what works.

I have to say, having a Sleeper, I am nervous about having a second child incase it isnt a Sleeper

I have had two non sleepers (as babies. DD1 is a champion sleeper as a child). The world is cruel! My mum had one of each (me being the 'non'), and I was convinced lightning couldn't strike twice. Perhaps I took the hit for other people who get two good ones.