To consider gina?

[Pickles77]

Okay AIBU to consider buying a gina ford book? I have the mumsnet baby book which is great... But got the impression most mumsnetters don't approve of gina ford? I'm not sure I will, I'm just intrigued by the fuss? And want to be the best mum
I can be...

I just can't understand why an intelligent person can't work out that babies need to sleep during the day and then make sure it happens, without someone telling them to do it. At a time which works for both of you.

"Shag being illiterate doesn't make you not intelligent"

No, of course not.

But how is it that we've become so divorced from the ordinary rhythms of life through infancy and childhood that we actually need someone to give us a manual telling us how to conduct our relationships with our babies?

Olimpia - Tis freaky, the two hour thing. I have never, ever done a 'book' routine. DD1 (just 3) still has an after lunch nap and she almost always sleeps for two hours almost to the minute. DD2 (just one) is more variable, but will almost always also do two hours if she has a long sleep (and either 45 minutes or 1.5 hours if shorter. Again, almost to the minute). I think it must be a sleep cycle thing.

Because Shag now happily for many of us life doesn't begin and end with having a newborn.

Many of us have full lives and having a newborn is thankfully temporary. When I decided to become a mother I looked at the bigger picture and how I would be over the next 18-70 odd years.The first 6 months is not something I spent years rehearsing or agonising over so consequently I was clueless, hey ho.I have an early years degree so was pretty hot on the toddler years though although I still found Toddler Taming hugely helpful.

Like many I loath the newborn months,motherhood really starts to be enjoyable and easier imvho when they start sleeping properly and actually do something interesting when awake.

There you go You'll tis hardly worth lambasting Gina when what she advocates what many do naturally anyway.My babies needed to be shown the way,they're like me and need structure,always have,always will.Not all babies are the same.

I was given GF when my baby was about 8 or 9 weeks old. I'd always thought he was weirdly organised and liked routine. Reading GF made me relieved, he was following her routines almost to the letter, it made me realise it was just natural.

rockpool I couldn't disagree more! I love it when they're tiny and you're their whole world. I love holding them all the time and waking up to a gummy smile next to me in bed. I couldn't care less about structure or getting my life back. They fall into a routine of sorts by themselves anyway so what's the point of choosing a routine for them?

But i didn't lambast her anywhere Rockpool? Except about not room sharing -but it sounds like that may be an old edition. I am firmly in the "not my cup of tea but lots of people love her" camp, as i said in my first post on this thread.

Shag having a baby is a daunting experience for lots of women. No matter how intelligent they are not all mums cope well with the challenges of a new baby and know what to do. There is no shame in referring to a manual even it is just to reassure you that you are doing the right thing.

Olimpia that's you not me.

I can't function with zero sleep and being at home with babies 24/7 I need some structure.Clearly my babies were exactly the same needing guidance as they were utterly miserable pre Gina and were transformed into the happiest,smiliest,contented babies within 3 days after Gina.

We all hate co-sleeping.I never slept a wink through fear of smothering and all of us like space and being able to move a lot.I have my 3 in with me when ill,after an hour or so they're begging to be allowed to go back to their own beds. They did this from tiny.

I am not you.My babies aren't your babies.

One size of motherhood doesn't fit all

rockpool interesting that you're mentioning zero sleep. I never said that that I don't get enough sleep so why did you assume that I was?
Yes there isn't one size fits all for motherhood. I never thought there was.

Not commenting on you at all just me. Prior to Gina I had zero sleep,after Gina I got a decent nights sleep.

I just can't understand why an intelligent person can't work out that babies need to sleep during the day and then make sure it happens, without someone telling them to do it. At a time which works for both of you

But how is it that we've become so divorced from the ordinary rhythms of life through infancy and childhood that we actually need someone to give us a manual telling us how to conduct our relationships with our babies?

now this annoys me because it doesn't read so much as disliking GF in itsefl, it actually reads to me as disliking women who used GF!

as one who did use I don't in anyway think that women who can "go with the flo" and work out what to do with their newborns are in any way inferior, I think it's great that people can work it out for themselves but I couldn't.

Shagmundfreud, I am academically intelligent, and fairly emotionally intelligent with other adults, but that has sod all to do with being naturally good with babies. One of the best most creative intuitive nursery nurses I've come across cannot write a coherent sentance - she's like a baby whisperer though! Some people have been involved in other peoples babies before having their own, some people havent but it 'clicks' when the have theirs and what they try works, others have no experience AT ALL of babies and it doesn't "click" till someone states the obvious to them, then its like "oh of COURSE! that's what they want - its obvious NOW!" - that's how I felt reading GF.

In general I don't think that GF users are anti non routine people, I think they are pro finding whatever works even if its unpopular. So why are people who were lucky enough to have an instant instinct kick in that told them what to do with their bundles so scathing of those who aren't lucky enough for it to work that way?

So perhaps some of those in the non routine camp could let us know that their baby manages to sleep through the night and they get a decent nights sleep? Would that resolve the issue?

I thought this thread was about using 'gina as an alternative word to fanny.

How disappointing.

BTW, Shag, IMO I am fab with toddlers, I think I 'get' them very naturally and haven't needed to read any toddler taming type stuff, I've no desire or need to refer to a manual for that age group. I've also worked with primary school kids and also teenagers which I really enjoy and find that getting them motivated is quite easy for me. I do not "get" babies naturally - that bit I need help with! but hey everyone has their strenghts and weaknesses!

OP - I used GF with both my DC's. I fully understand and agree that its not for everyone, but it was wonderful for me and I had 2 very happy, well fed and rested babies as a result. Both were sleeping 7-7 at c.10 weeks (and continued to be excellent sleepers), I wasn't a zombie and was able to enjoy the early weeks and their early years.

I would agree with one of the earlier posters. "Don't bother with it until at least 4 weeks, then use it as a rough guide so that you are aiming for the feeding times in the book." The most important bit for me IF you choose to read the books, is that you don't have to follow them to the letter. You pick out the bits you like and disregard the bits you don't.

From the people i know that have used and loved GF, it tends to be the mothers who are calmed by routine and organisation in their lives. If they are calm and not stressed and able to cope at what can be a very stressful time, that can only have a positive effect on their baby.

Shebird - Not following Gina doesn't mean you don't have a routine. It often means you just have your own. Or have a loose routine.

But also, it isn't necessarily about whether a baby sleeps through the night or not. DD1 was a rubbish sleeper until one, but is amazing now. DD2 is rubbish at one. But I was brought up in the era of strict routines as standard, and was rubbish until two, as was my mother before me. With DD1 I tried to do the 'right' things for sleep - own cot, own room, don't feed to sleep. She was still rubbish and I was knackered. With DD2 I co-slept until recently, and a similar frequency of night waking was perfectly manageable. It might not suit others, but I did feel rested.

And if you really need it, two of my friends did no routine and had babies who slept through from 10 and 14 weeks.

It shouldn't be about who is better .It should be about finding what suits you as a family. For some that might be Gina, for others it might be picking and choosing Gina. For others she will be the last thing to suit them.

I find many of the ideas in GF work, but dont beat yourself up if the baby isn't asleep or awake or feeding at the exact minute specified. The idea of the baby not being awake too long to avoid over tiredness is spot on. Expecting him to self settle in his cot is rather over optimistic though. I am taking the bits that work for me and ignoring the rest, and to be honest the book has been a bit of a lifesaver since I have done that, my over tired fussy colicky baby has improved a lot with a loose version of her routine. However, since he is breastfed I have kept him on a routine for a slightly younger baby which involves more frequent feeding as he really can't go 4 hours between feeds yet. And I let him have a bit longer naps than she suggests for a baby his age (when I can get the little monkey to sleep in the first place) as otherwise he is still tired. If i had never read the book I would have been clueless as to how long babies can stay awake before getting too tired and how many naps a day babies should have.

Ok, that's beautiful when your babies 'click' with the routine and all are happy. But what about those mothers who cover the pram of a tiny newborn with a cloth and let the poor child scream and cry for hours, ignoring their needs, because "it's nap time and they have to be consistent"?

That's just sad.

I've never known anyone who does that schroed and I wouldn't approve

Well, I see that a lot.

I don't know which book they've read, but I see loads of mothers who are very little responsive to their babies, and they always have a "philosophy" which they say they are following. (and funnily they always say they're avoiding 'making a rod for their own back' - a hateful expression)

I've never,ever seen mothers do that Schroe.

The whole point of doing Gina is to get your baby to be happy and contented.Their needs are met often before they need to panic so very little crying is involved.

I know a lot of Gina mums and I've never seen what you described.

gina does not suggest covering the pram and leaving your baby to scream in it by the way.

What I'd like to see is research showing how routines, expressing and giving bottles from birth, and encouraging babies to sleep through by 7 weeks impacts on exclusive and long term breastfeeding rates. Perhaps GF could part fund this research, given that she recommends these things and insists that not only do they NOT impact on breastfeeding, but they may actually improve it. Because as far as I can see she's not got any support in advocating this approach from anyone who is actually specially trained in breastfeeding. But then they have to take an evidence based approach, whereas GF can say what she likes.

As for my personal experience - I worked out a routine that was amenable to my babies and to me through the process of watching them and thinking about the things which seemed to settle them and the things that made them fractious. This watching and thinking and sometimes getting it wrong was part of the process of getting to know my baby and learning about being a mum. I really believe that the PROCESS of learning how to understand and meet your baby's needs is an important part of your education in parenthood. GF isn't interested in learning about motherhood. She's interested in end results: a baby who causes the least inconvenience. But that's because she approaches the whole issue from the point of view of someone to whom looking after babies is a job, and not a relationship.

And having been bought up in developing countries I think her approach is very culturally specific to the 'time is money' and 'independence in small children is something to be treasured' mind set of the west. I suspect the majority of women around the world would find her approach deeply baffling.

I used GF as a basis for my routine, following the layout of the day but not being so strict on timings. It worked brilliantly. Also used the toddler and potty training books - full of useful ideas.