To want our new flat to ourselves for a while?

[Staceisace]

My DP and I are moving into a new place in a fortnight or so. We've already lived together for over a year but we've just graduated from university and everything's a bit up in the air for us right now as we need to make some decisions about our careers and future (aiming to get full time jobs, save money, get married, buy flat/house...fingers crossed!)

DP's parents know someone who has a flat in our city and that's where we're moving to. I'm not 100% behind the arrangement but couldn't find anywhere else so it'll have to do. The flat is around the same size as our current place which is a one bed but the new place has two bedrooms and an en suite in one of the bedrooms. Overall floorspace is about the same and storage is at a minimum in the new place so most of our big items (suitcases, cat carrier, general crap to be hidden away) will probably end up in the spare room/study.

Initially DP's parents offered to help us move with their van. Now they've decided not to bring their van down but rather their small car which isn't exactly helpful and I don't understand why they've decided to do this - they bring their van down here all the time! A friend with a larger car has already offered their help.

DP's mum is acting like a bit of a go-between regarding the flat and has now also told us it'll be up to us to clean the flat since the old tenants left (not the landlord as expected ...even though the landlord says she is going to). I kind of wish she would leave things alone - DP contacts landlord and it's much easier that way as they both know each other but still want a professional-ish relationship whereas DP's mum just wants to make her friend's life easier. So now we have less help to move and a load of extra cleaning to do. I could handle that but the real kicker is...

DP's parents have earmarked the gloriously tiny spare bedroom as theirs and have set out a series of dates over the coming summer when they plan to stay. They're also delighted that the flat comes with a parking space (we don't have a car). I was okay with them staying as a thank you for helping us move but now I'm a bit :/ about it. We're spending the summer looking for/starting new full time jobs and I probably won't have the time to have the flat ready for them and to entertain them whilst they're here. They're not overly demanding but they always have to have everything 'just so' and I don't think we're capable of providing that right now. The flat is so small we'd be tripping over them and I'm worried about other things like them letting the cat out etc. I'd have preferred it if we could have settled in and then invited them down for a weekend or something when we felt ready to have guests, you know? We were even thinking of inviting them and DP's sister for Christmas because we can't leave the cat but it'd be nice to spend the day with family. We figured that the whole 'being a bit cosy' in the small flat wouldn't be such an issue during the festive period (besides, the Christmas tree would be one less piece of junk in the spare room!)

I'm so used to my parents being really hands off that it's a little overbearing for me. My DP finds it a bit too much as well right now - it's getting to the point where they're calling every day about this flipping flat! Before now they'd phone every Sunday usually and visit maybe once every two or three months just for the day.

I'm being an idiot, aren't I?

I'm confused by the young people in London comment. It seemed to spring from nowhere.

Just because people in London live in tiny shitholes doesn't mean people elsewhere should too

What an ignorant, idiotic and yes offensive comment to make!

No relevance to the thread at all.

Personally, I would never rent out a flat to two people who do not have jobs. Also, I cannot understand why OP is moving and why she would consider renting a place she doesn't really like to do her mil's friend a 'favour'.

I live in Scotland and know there are plenty of two beds available in Glasgow city centre. Don't know how people without jobs can get to rent them though...would need parents to cosign or pay full six months rent upfront.

I am sticking with my view that op is entitled and selfish. Probably sees everything she does as a 'favour' to someone else, even if it is the other way around.

I'm confused by the young people in London comment. It seemed to spring from nowhere

An excuse to London bash i suppose.

The thing is, in Edinburgh, probably the most expensive city, you can rent a 1200 square foot two bed for £850 a month. This is in the city centre, in the desirable streets.

In Chelsea you probably can get a 450 square foot studio flat for that amount...?

Hence the notion amongst some in Scotland that young people in London who live in the city centre must be living in really cramped quarters....

Personally I'm not sure of the rights and wrongs of the situation, but OP all you need to do is be a bit less thorough on the house cleaning for feminist reasons but also because if FIL is allergic to cat hair he won't be terribly keen to stay somewhere that causes him to feel ill.

Oh and ditto to whoever said not to get that comfy a bed - futon may suit you better as it can be pushed back when not in use.

Just say no , this is my home not a hotel ?

Flatbread. Its still no excuse for being offensive though. Also London prices vary a lot depending which part you live in. Most people don't live in chelsea(!) and there are plenty of other nice parts. I would also wonder if the wages are higher in London, id look it up but i can't an arsed plus its beside the point. I wouldn't be so rude about Scotland!

IME people who slag off London have never actually been there.

Poo, the poster was probably being tongue in cheek! Or maybe she was pissed off that someone automatically assumed the OP was in London when she mentioned inlaws coming over for cultural events?

The thing is, while most ordinary people don't live in Chelsea, very average wage earners can afford to live in the best streets in Scotland. Ok, not a mansion, but a decent flat.

The wages in Edinburgh and Glasgow are probably not that off as compared to London for good jobs in banking, IT and consulting jobs. Successful business owners probably draw in a decent income too. And oh, oil related jobs in Aberdeen are considered quite lucrative and I think it is still a growth area.

We have lived in London and Scotland, and the quality of life is soooo much higher in Scotland than London. If you can deal with the cold summers and awful winters

Anyway, I am neither from down South or up North, so I have no beef in this battle!

Its not a battle. Its not about rent prices or wages. Its about someone being incredibly rude.

She was not being even remotely tongue in cheek. Just nasty!

Ok, we can agree to disagree on this. I think she did not mean to be nasty. A lot of people were telling OP that she had generous room sizes, but people who live in Scottish tenements/ converted houses are often used to very generous sized rooms, for not that much money.

For example, I have seen a 1500 square feet one bed flat, very nicely done up, on one of the very best streets of Edinburgh, rent for £700 a month. Easily affordable by a young professional couple. But I digress...

I think the poster was making a point that being used to large rooms does not equal entitled in Scotland. Maybe she did it in a way which was offensive to people from London. But it seems pretty mild compared to some of the comments I heard about things Scottish when I was working in London. I was like although some of it was really quite funny too

I don't know the exact square footage of our current place but you could fit both bedrooms of our new place into our current living room and the rest of the flat is smaller than our bedroom/bathroom/kitchen at the moment. I would have preferred to live in a tenement but DP prefers modern flats and since we've lived in a tenement for a year, I had to compromise. We pay £575 for a poorly decorated and not very well maintained one bed flat in a tenement. As for not renting to people with no jobs - we have the money right now to pay 6 months rent up front, no problem, if that was neccessary, which we knew it might be with some agencies. We have to be out of here by the 20th of July but I was only given until the 5th of June to find an alternative. We don't want to have to overlap rents a great deal so a lot of flats which would become available mid-July weren't being advertised yet. I trawled every website I could think of, went to agencies, looked in the papers etc. DP clearly said that he would only live somewhere else if it was cheaper/the same price and more spacious/convenient but it had to be a modern flat.

We're good tenants - respectful of everything in the flats we've lived in and we leave them cleaner than we found them. We actually had a viewing here today and our current landlord is delighted with the state of the place and praised us for being 'neat and tidy'.

Flatbread I don't know why you feel the need to make assumptions that we are terribly poor and are going to default on our rents or that we'd be awful tenants! You've got all of this from the fact I'm not particularly pleased with our new flat.

This is not even the issue I initially posted about, you're just nit picking to try and make me look like a bad person. You've had your say - you think I'm selfish and 'entitled' (??) but there is no need to keep pushing the issue, is there?

Gosh, I am sorry. I do not assume you are poor (not that there is anything wrong with that!) or that you will default or that you are bad tenants in any way.

I could not see why you would move into an apartment you were not keen on, and do it through mil, unless there was a real benefit to you.

If it helps, I might have changed my mind...I think your dp sounds selfish - leaves the cleaning to you, chooses an apartment you are not that keen on...

Anyway, best of luck with your move and job-search. Hope it all works out well

OP this thread has digressed on so many levels in a way only AIBU can...

End of the day, sending friends/family a list of dates you will be staying with them is v rude.

IL's put you in touch with someone who needed to let a flat... Doesn't mean they have stake in it!

Supporting dc through uni/life doesn't entitle you to behave as you please forever.

No interest in how much money you have or how you are paying for your flat or who cleans most. Lay down some boundaries now OP - give an inch and they will take a mile.

OP, I had a similar situation with my lovely, lovely ILs when DH and I first got married. It was really important to me that DH spoke to them about it for two reasons - the first was to show he was able to prioritise his new family when it was appropriate to do so and more importantly that the issue got dealt with straight away and didn't turn into a barrier in our relationship where we felt suffocated and not in control. DH had one five minute chat 10 years ago and it's never been a problem since. They stay with us in total for about 4-5 weeks a year but times always agreed in advance and the arrangements can be mutually beneficial (they use us as a base, they've moved one of their trips this year to help with holiday child care).

Get your DP to speak to his parents as soon as is practical as I think you'll find it's becoming a bigger thing in your head than it needs to be in reality.

Good luck!

give an inch and they will take a mile

Glad the parents didn't think like this...

Better not support our son through university, if we give an inch he will take a mile.

Or let us not help them move, give an inch, they will take a mile

Or let us not help son and op find a flat, give an inch and they will take a mile

The issue is in OPs mind and she should deal with it by getting less precious about this small stuff. Why should DP have to tell parents off just to prove some kind of prioritisation to OP? Bizarre, uncouth behaviour that somehow seems appropriate when dealing with mil, according to mn wisdom.

I made it though the whole thread and honestly, the more details that come out, the more I think YABU. Size of flat and whether or not it's a favour to MIL's friend - not particulalrly relevant.

Your DP didn't have to take the money they kept offering him. But since he did, it would be nice to acknowledge that their generosity benefitted him, and you, considerably. He might not have needed to work as much, and he might have had more disposible income to enjoy or to save towards your future. Doesn't really matter how, but he did benefit from their financial help. Of course, they're his parents and it was his decision to accept the money, so you aren't indebted to them.

The main impression I got from your posts is that you just don't want his parents visiting, or assuming they can visit when it would be very helpful for them to have a place to stay. Fine. I don't understand that attitude, since you both seem to like them a lot. I would be chuffed to be able to do a favour for my family and also to see them, especially if they had helped me in the past. If you prefer a different type of relationsip, your call.

But to dress it up under a pile of excuses seems pretty tasteless - all this about settling in and being so busy finding work? Rubbish. Yes, that takes time, but you're not actually working so you have plenty. If it's so hard to make time for visitors now, how will it be later- working, maybe kids, future study? I'm sure if you told them you'd be in and out, they would understand and never dream of expecting constant entertainment. So in lieu of offering them a bed and some of your available time, just admit you don't want them there so they know where they stand.

I would just add that if people did assume you were poor, OP, it's not an insult, it's because you are both graduates. Most graduates finish their courses with debts of more than £12,000 these days. I know that your DP was supported by his parents, but you weren't, and it's really unusual to be able to finish university with enough saved to keep you going for 6 months. Quite reassuring actually that this is doable! But you can't blame people for thinking that, even with some parental support for your DP, the pair of you would be flat broke.

OP, I think the some of the responses on this thread are way OTT. TBH I think you should let them stay for all the times you already know about this summer but have a chat about it and say you'd really appreciate if they checked first that if was ok with you. If anyone - friends, family, whoever - said to me "we'll be in town and will be staying with you..." I'd be pissed off but if they said "we'll be in town and hoped we could stay with you, is that ok?", different story entirely. I think you just need to feel wee bit more in control and that can be hard when it's someone else's parents, especially when you generally think they are great.

My ILs are completely lovely but they have a tendency to want to 'play things by ear' as they are retired and pretty laid back as people. This doesn't work so well for us as DH and I both work full time and have two small DCs so we need a bit of forward planning. Because DH got comfortable taking to his parents about this years ago, it's really no problem.

Some posters on this thread would obviously be comfortable in the situation you describe but the important thing is you aren't and you need to get to a place where all of you are happy and appreciate each other's boundaries. TBH I think your ILs would probably be mortified if they knew you were so uncomfortable about what was happening that you were posting on MN! Hope you get it sorted.

OP why doesn't your DP tell his parents to tone it down? YANBU to think they are being overbearing.

There are so many posts on Mumsnet where the situation would be solved if the DP/DH would simply grow a backbone and talk to his parents.

I would hate hate hate to feel obliged to anyone with regards to where I live. It's an open invitation to taking the piss, if you ask me, parents or not. Will they have their own key?

If they wanted to stay one time and it really wasn't convenient, would you be in a position to say no? That's the rub.

I would endeavour to find my own place and have no obligation to anyone.

"We live in different cities - they live about a two and a half hour drive away. The dates they've decided they're staying are dates when they've booked tickets to go to shows or concerts etc. which they do anyway and normally either drive home late or stay in a hotel."

When I read your OP, I KNEW this was the case.

They see your flat as their hotel room.

You have got to say no. If you choose not to, you really can't complain when they carry on taking the piss.

Get the dates they have booked and choose a few to say no to. Sorry, you can't stay on X date, X date and X date, because it's not convenient, but you can stay on X date and X date.

You don't actually have to be doing anything, just pick several at random. The point is to hammer home that this is YOUR flat, not a bed for them when they are coming down to see a show, and they don't have control here. YOU do. You don't have to fall into line.

I'm so used to my parents being really hands off that it's a little overbearing for me.

This is really the crux of it. Can DP get this across to them without causing offence?

You might find as you get to know them better that you enjoy their company more. Certainly going forward (having kids etc) having 'hands on' relations can be a bonus. Are they the sort that would babysit for the weekend in the future? I know some people think it's unhealthy to think in terms of GIVE and TAKE as we should all be totally altruistic and buddhist about it, but if you think they'll put themselves out for you both (as they arguably have done financially) then consider being more openminded to the idea of them staying. If however you don't think you have anything to lose by being more direct, and if it wouldn't upset DP, then be honest in the knowledge you are running the risk of souring your relationship. As I said, depends what sort of people they are.

the OP doesn't even have kids. Nowhere near by the sounds of it. I thought this was mumsnet?
Say no the in laws if thats what you want but find your own flat. Grow up.

Also to the wider discussion. costs about £3000 a month to live in chelsea and at least 1500£ for a cheap one bedroom flat in zone 1. Serious housing problems in london. Scotland sounds very cheap eve edinburgh