To want our new flat to ourselves for a while?

[Staceisace]

My DP and I are moving into a new place in a fortnight or so. We've already lived together for over a year but we've just graduated from university and everything's a bit up in the air for us right now as we need to make some decisions about our careers and future (aiming to get full time jobs, save money, get married, buy flat/house...fingers crossed!)

DP's parents know someone who has a flat in our city and that's where we're moving to. I'm not 100% behind the arrangement but couldn't find anywhere else so it'll have to do. The flat is around the same size as our current place which is a one bed but the new place has two bedrooms and an en suite in one of the bedrooms. Overall floorspace is about the same and storage is at a minimum in the new place so most of our big items (suitcases, cat carrier, general crap to be hidden away) will probably end up in the spare room/study.

Initially DP's parents offered to help us move with their van. Now they've decided not to bring their van down but rather their small car which isn't exactly helpful and I don't understand why they've decided to do this - they bring their van down here all the time! A friend with a larger car has already offered their help.

DP's mum is acting like a bit of a go-between regarding the flat and has now also told us it'll be up to us to clean the flat since the old tenants left (not the landlord as expected ...even though the landlord says she is going to). I kind of wish she would leave things alone - DP contacts landlord and it's much easier that way as they both know each other but still want a professional-ish relationship whereas DP's mum just wants to make her friend's life easier. So now we have less help to move and a load of extra cleaning to do. I could handle that but the real kicker is...

DP's parents have earmarked the gloriously tiny spare bedroom as theirs and have set out a series of dates over the coming summer when they plan to stay. They're also delighted that the flat comes with a parking space (we don't have a car). I was okay with them staying as a thank you for helping us move but now I'm a bit :/ about it. We're spending the summer looking for/starting new full time jobs and I probably won't have the time to have the flat ready for them and to entertain them whilst they're here. They're not overly demanding but they always have to have everything 'just so' and I don't think we're capable of providing that right now. The flat is so small we'd be tripping over them and I'm worried about other things like them letting the cat out etc. I'd have preferred it if we could have settled in and then invited them down for a weekend or something when we felt ready to have guests, you know? We were even thinking of inviting them and DP's sister for Christmas because we can't leave the cat but it'd be nice to spend the day with family. We figured that the whole 'being a bit cosy' in the small flat wouldn't be such an issue during the festive period (besides, the Christmas tree would be one less piece of junk in the spare room!)

I'm so used to my parents being really hands off that it's a little overbearing for me. My DP finds it a bit too much as well right now - it's getting to the point where they're calling every day about this flipping flat! Before now they'd phone every Sunday usually and visit maybe once every two or three months just for the day.

I'm being an idiot, aren't I?

Whatever you do don't let them have a key. You will hate coming home and finding they've let themselves in and are sitting in your living room having a cup of tea. I speak from bitter experience.

I have no intention of letting them have a key! In saying that, their friend owns the flat and thus has keys. They're bringing her keys down on Tuesday for us to get into the flat and pick up the keys the previous tenants posted through the letterbox. They're the kind of people who plan things very far in advance (hence giving us dates they're staying) so I don't think that would happen even if they had keys...

At what point did your PIL feel it was okay to let themselves into your house and make themselves tea?!?!?

I would in all seriousness get weekends blocked out with other people visiting, to make the point the room is not theirs as much as anything. It doesn't sound too welcoming being so small, maybe once they try it they'll be back to hotels as before.

I would do that too! You need to find a way to make them realise that knowing the landlord doesn't give them some sort of right to your home.

Can i just say that this flat doesn't sound that small! A spare room you can get a double bed and a desk in and two bathrooms! Im a lot older then you and I've finally been able to move out of my first place into a house. My first place was a two bed flat. Second room only had space for a single bed and nothing else and it had one bathroom. Not that this is relevant, just thought id mention it.

OP thanks for clarifying, but honestly, I still think you are being selfish. If you and DP have joint accounts down the road, then you will have more disposable income because of the fact that DP does not have student loans.

I assume you are getting a better flat than you could find on your own, otherwise why would you accept the favour from the inlaws?

To all the posters who are saying pil gave the money out of their own free will. Yes, but DP chose to take the money, he could have said no.

One thing you realise as as adult, is that there is no free lunch. If you get something, there is a cost attached. Best is to be graceful about it, accept DP's parents (who seem lovely) and build a bond. Or as seems to be the norm in MN, moan about mil and always look for slights and draw boundaries.

My parents have moved to be close to my sis. They have keys to her place and stay with her when there is work going on in their house. It just seems so normal to me. If my parents lived closer to me, we would have the same setup and I would not be happy if dh kicked up a fuss about it.
He is not that close to his parents, but I am to mine. He accepts my relationship and if it bothers him, he deals with it as he is an adult and realises that human relations are not all on his terms and what he is comfortable with.

Where is your DP on all this? If he has issues, he can talk to his parents. Why are you getting so involved?

How the hell are you affording a two bed flat in central London without jobs?

I would just let them see for themselves when they come down just how packed out the flat is and how little space there is for guests. Hopefully they might decide a nice quiet b & b is a better option for them.

Madonna. Is it in central London!? A good sized (although op doesn't agree) two bed two bath flat in central London would costs many, many thousands per month.

(whispers . . . Op is rich)

Flatbread. Im totting up all the things my parents did for me when i was a baby, child and student and wondering if they think this allows them to treat my home as they wish, to come and go as they wish, to not consider my need for privacy, to be given no choice of who stays in my home and when . . .

No of course they wouldn't. Because that would be rude.

If the boyfriend had been informed when his parents were paying his student rent, that it was in exchange for them staying in his future home as and when they wanted for the foreseeable future you might have a point. He could have made that decision. I doubt very much indeed that they did.

Yet again i am seeing this bazaar opinion on mn that if someone gives you or does something for you of monetary value then you have have lost your rights to be treated as an adult and with respect. I do wonder if this opinion just comes from one poster who plasters it all over the boards or if this are several people with this weird view on money.

I also wonder if you have this opinion flatbread because you in fact like to give people money without telling them of the strings attached. Now a premeditated act like that i would imagine would only be done to control people.

The ops boyfriend would have thought the rent was a gift. Obviously

It all boils down to different people's expectations. Future MIL does sound a bit cheeky saying 'we'll be coming X, Y and Z weekends' and being proprietorial over the parking space.

Families should help each other as they did with DP, and I don't think it's unreasonable to have one good turn deserve another IF no ones inconvenienced or upset. Being welcoming so his folks and sister can save money and spend time with you both (as it sounds like you do get on well) kind of makes sense.

But if OP needs more personal space I can totally get she'd feel claustrophobic at the thought of them dropping into her new home without a by your leave at various and frequent points in the future.

Those who think the OP's DP 'owes' his parents use of the flat on their terms, or is not being sufficiently 'grateful' need to get a grip. That's guilt-tripping.

OP, talk to the landlord and get clarity on who cleans the flat. Then your DP needs to tell his mum that the issue became confused because you heard different things from her and from the landlord, and from now on you'll be dealing directly and exclusively with the landlord.

The suggestion that he says to her 'This is our flat, we make the decisions, you wait to get invited' is the best advice on this thread.

You don't need to explain to them that you want the 'spare' room as an office, or that you want the place to yourselves because you'll be busy/job-hunting/want to settle in/whatever. You don't need to play games by inviting others to stay so you can tell them that the room isn't free. You don't need to drop hints about how busy or tired you are. Just be upfront.

(FWIW, I think OP is in Scotland)

OP, I don't think you are being unreasonable. I think though, for the sake of keeping the peace, it might be worth sitting down with MIL, getting out diaries and synchronising weekends with her. You can put in as many real/fake guests at weekends as you like, but then at least she will realise that they cannot descend on you whenever they please.

Oops - posted too soon!

I also agree that because DPs parents paid his way through university doesn't mean that they are therefore entitled to use his place as a crashpad whenever they feel like it!

And he might be starting out life with no student loan to pay off, but that doesn't mean he has no debt! Student loans only start to be paid off once you are earning over £1250 (or it was, threshold might have changed by now) so it might not even be a consideration anyway.

If that makes any sense at all

Op, I think a bit of give and take is needed on both sides.

You are making the transition to being a DIL, and gaining a new family. That can be hard, but it's important that you treat his parents as you would your own, so do try and accommodate them within reason.

That said, some boundaries do need to be set. This is your home, not an extended-family crashpad. If they want to come stay, they need to ask you - not tell you - in advance, and you are free to say no if it doesn't suit. It would do no harm on one of their next requests to very politely decline ('so sorry, we've got friends staying that weekend but you're welcome the weekend after').

PooPoo,

What your parents do for you when you are a baby and child is one thing. You don't really have a choice. But when you are 16+ and a young adult, then, yes, you do have a choice to accept a 'gift' or not.

And tuition payment is hardly a gift, in the traditional sense, is it? Just like a house deposit, it is a lot of money. It is not equivalent to buying a birthday present for a couple hundred quid, is it?

Every relationship is about quid pro quo, to an extent. Anyone who kids themselves that huge monetary 'gifts' or a lot of time/effort spent ( e.g., babysitting grandkids everyday) come without any obligations, are in denial or extremely selfish.

If you want every relationship on your own terms, then best not to accept any favours or large gifts from anyone. You don't get to pick and choose the aspects of a relationship you want. E.g., I like your generosity but don't want the closeness.

OP doesn't sound that respectful of her dh's family, does she? She is making snide comments about pil and sil. Even though she is taking from pil, she is reluctant to provide any help to sil, even the minor inconvenience of providing a place for sil to stay for job interviews. Very selfish, IMO. Being an adult is not only about drawing boundaries. It is about standing on your own feet, being tolerant of others and helping others. Seems pil are the real adults here, op is playing at it, wants the good parts of adulthood, but not the compromises and obligations it entails.

I am amazed at all the people who seem to think the OP's partner (and so automatically the OP too) have signed away all rights to personal space and to considering their home their own, on the basis the in-laws paid their own child's way through university! Are the people who are posting this all mums of young adults who are helping pay for their children's education on the basis that this gives them the right to eternal expressions of gratitude, including but not limited to being entitled to stay in those adult children's homes without invitation for the rest of their adult life?

Personally I support my children on the basis that they are my children and I want to, I am not keeping score so they can pay me back in kind and express constant gratitude when they have their own resources, that sounds unhealthy to say the least, to me!

What BecauseItsBedtime said.

I think you are being quite disingenuous, OP.

You say you have " tried SO hard to find somewhere else which was two bedroomed and it was just impossible."

Really?

In the whole of your city there are NO two bedroom flats to rent? Full stop?

I think what you are probably really saying is that there were no two bedroomed flats you can afford.

Then your DP's parents find you one that belongs to a friend. It's quite clear to me that you are getting this flat at a discount, as a favour. And the favour is being done by the landlady to your PILS. Which is why they are acting as go-betweens, I'd say.

So I am another one who thinks you are being selfish.

All you need to do is leave the bedroom full of junk and express vague distress at the fact that "it really won't be ready for you by XX date, I am so worried about what we are going to do, we've got no storage you see."

But you can't do that can you - because although in your OP you say it's that that's the problem, actually you plan to have it as a bedroom for YOUR family to stay in.

I think it boils down to - get your own flat for yourself.

'It's quite clear to me that you are getting this flat at a discount, as a favour.'

Really? It ain't that clear to me. Can you point out where this is made 'clear'?

She is making snide comments about pil and sil. Even though she is taking from pil,

She hasn't made snide comments! All she has said is that she gets on well with pil and doesn't particularly want sil living with her. That's her choice.

And where has she taken from pil?! She hasn't taken a thing. They know the landlord, that's it!

And tuition payment is hardly a gift, in the traditional sense, is it? Just like a house deposit, it is a lot of money. It is not equivalent to buying a birthday present for a couple hundred quid, is it?

As far as i am aware a gift doesn't have a size limit. It can be as small as a key ring or as large as a house deposite, but the fact is that unless the giver states at the time of giving that they expect it back or something in return, then it is a gift. Without strings attached.

'unless the giver states at the time of giving that they expect it back or something in return, then it is a gift. Without strings attached.'

Exactly.

Every relationship is about quid pro quo, to an extent. Anyone who kids themselves that huge monetary 'gifts' or a lot of time/effort spent ( e.g., babysitting grandkids everyday) come without any obligations, are in denial or extremely selfish.

For you they might, for other people they give just to be nice. Especially to their own children.

Gifts coming with obligations! Seriously what the f! The obligation for the boyfriend to have to let his mum treat his and his girlfriends home as her own, to come and go as she pleases!!!

Yup, very unhealthy to expect young adults to be accommodating towards their parents and siblings.

A healthy attitude is to take, take and take and be very watchful of your own personal space. It is all about me and my needs after all. Everyone else is just there to jump in to 'freely' give what I need and then fade away conveniently till it suits me to have them re-enter my 'space'

God forbid that families have a close relationship, and that parents help their children and the children help their parents without formality on both sides.

I am so glad I am not related to any of you on this thread. I am very careful not to take from others, and yet will do my best for my family. My sis and parents never need to ask to come, they are welcome in my home and heart anytime. And dh is a good man, because he accepts that and sees our family closeness as a positive thing, not as some huge encroachment on his personal space.

Where did the idea that OP is in London come from ? Just because her DP's parents are coming to the city for shows and events, London is not the only city where this happens. Glasgow is mentioned at one point as where DP stayed for 6 years, maybe that is where they are now? There is a lot of housing in central Glasgow.

Flatbread, you and your family may be happy with seeing each other's homes as extensions of your own, but it is much more usual for people to expect some 'territorial respect' from their families. It is definitely not selfish of the OP to be put out that DP's mother is treating DP's/OP's HOME as her personal pied a terre in the city.

If you want every relationship on your own terms, then best not to accept any favours or large gifts from anyone. You don't get to pick and choose the aspects of a relationship you want. E.g., I like your generosity but don't want the closeness.

No one has said they don't want closeness. They just want to choose who is living in their own home at any one time! They are happy for visits but would just like some choice in it. Wouldn't you!?

Im starting to think your opinion is clouded by your own issues. So who has taken the piss out of you or not returned a favour?