To wonder if talking to your child should take precedence over reading your book

[clemetteattlee]

I genuinely don't know how I feel about this one but it has been on my mind since yesterday (I am revising for exams so my mind is easily distractable at the moment) so I thought I'd see what you think.

At the cafe of the swimming baths with my daughter last night, waiting for my MIL and son to finish his lesson and come down. Next to us was a woman reading a novel and a child who must have been about eight or nine. For half an hour she read her book and didn't speak to him. He didn't have anything to do but equally wasn't playing up. He just stood there watching the world go by, occasionally scuffing his heels.

Now I am by no means the perfect parent - my daughter and I were playing drawsomeon my phone not having a deep chat, and when I am on holiday or at home I do get engrossed in a book and try and encourage my two to do something independently, but they are in an environment where there is stuff to do rather than in a grungy cafe with nothing to occupy them.

I am not judging this woman, who knows what her child/relationship/background is like, but I suppose I wondered if this is unusual behaviour, or maybe I just play "entertainer" to mine too readily?

YABU
This is normal in our pool, parent either reading, surfing, watching kid in pool and child doing their own thing, either reading, playing or doing nothing. Perfect chance to relax/unwind for a bit after a busy day.
Never thought anything strange or unusual about it.

YABU
If you wanted to know more about her parenting style you should have asked her

For me, it's not a style of parenting per se, it is literally a case of having enough time to spend on different things.

Also of regarding an 8/9yo as an autonomous being who makes at least some of his own choices (e.g. taking entertainment) rather than somebody who has to be looked after all the time and have everything served on a plate. 9yo is not far from secondary school (11yo) when they will start wanting a lot more independence- ds is out with his mates all the time. Dd had reached puberty by 10, with all that entails of withdrawing into yourself and pulling away from too much parental interfering.

As for those who say if it had been another adult, isn't that working on the assumption that another adult would be someone not of your family, so somebody you are treating more or less as a guest?

Or do you really mean, Remembers, that you wouldn't feel you could read a book in the evenings until your dh has gone to bed? And that you couldn't take a book on e.g. a train journey because you would feel it rude not to entertain your dh?

To me, small children should be entertained because they are small and can't do much for themselves; older children can be treated more or less like husbands- they need to know that they can talk and we all like talking to each other, but sometimes we like doing our own thing. To me, it would be very uncomfortable to feel that you were always at a dinner party with your own family and had to provide small talk.

YABU. As you admit you just glimpsed a snapshot of their lives and have no idea how the rest of the week was spent.

It is possible to talk too much to your children and over stimulate them. I have relatives and friends who never allow their children any down time, they are constantly asking them questions and showing them things. This can have a negative impact, we have all had that annoying child round for tea who whines unless they have adult participation in every activity.

tomverlaine Fri 15-Jun-12 16:31:18

"I am surprised that the child was happy doing nothing- it is different from being able to entertain your self IMO. but i don't have much expereicne of this age group."

Ime many of this age group do like to retreat into their own thoughts. I spent a lot of time writing stories at this age and was forever working out my plots. Dd did the same. Coming from a large noisy family, I enjoyed every bit of quiet day-dreaming I could get.

Children have to learn to entertain themselves! Do you think generations gone by , working from dawn to dusk,worried about entertaining their childern?

Perhaps you should read up on 'the good enough mother,' op.

Frankly I am jealous she got to read her book for 30 mins in peace. Maybe after she picked up sibling from swimming they all went home and had a jolly sing song round the piano before eating a veggie storey and reading Proust aloud?

Or maybe she had finished a night shift, dragged the kids to swimming and wax trying to get 30 mins peace. Or maybe she was a student with a deadline who had to get this novel read. Or maybe, or maybe...

Had she been sitting with an adult she would never have been so rude as to read a book for 30 minutes, would she?

Why not? If it is someone that she knows well and has plenty of time to talk to them it is perfectly reasonable. You wouldn't do it if you didn't see them very often.
I think it is very valuable that DCs see that adults read for pleasure.

They must go every week and probably have a routine that suits them. At 8yrs old I was responsible for my own amusement and would have taken a book-without being prompted. He maybe a DCs who likes to think and use his imagination. I feel very sorry for the type of DCs who likes time to stand (or sit) and stare and never gets the chance because the parent has to fill every moment with activity or chat-it must be highly irritating.
I dare say that had he started a conversation she would have put her book down and talked.
Half the time-if you listen to similar conversations-it is very much adult led-especially if it is the sort of parent who wants to be seen as a 'good' parent who is constantly engaged with their DC!

Op I am wondering whether you are making stimulating conversation while you are revising.

No, because the children are with their dad and I am in the library. There is not a chance that I could work at home when the children are around!!

YABU I think.

I do think that some parents today do spend too much time entertaining their children and filling all their time with activites and as a consequence, I know of many children who are completely incapable of entertaining themselves.

I know I wasn't constantly entertained when I was younger and I didn't expect to be.

She's not sitting with an adult, though, she's sitting with a child! It's not rudeness then. Of course there have to be double standards. They haven't earned the right to a) be taken seriously and b) have their every whim considered and weighted up (as you would do with an adult, in the realms of politeness).

Honestly- treating children as children does not wound their poor self esteem! Or whatever other terrible thing will befall them.

clemetteattlee Fri 15-Jun-12 18:41:26
"No, because the children are with their dad and I am in the library. There is not a chance that I could work at home when the children are around!!"

I won't judge you for it, clemetteattlee. Even if I did write the best part of my book by dd's bedside.

I wrote my PhD thesis by my daughters bedside but she was only 2.5 then and an only one. I submitted it three days before DS was born. The year after he wa born was the only one I wasn't studying for a qualification. There is lots of studying at midnight in this house (I suppose I could technically do it at their bedside instead of sat in this chair...)

Quarrel quarrel do you genuinely believe children have fewer rights than adults?

Unreasonable behaviour? This all depends on what she was reading

what can they do to entertain themselves in a cafe with nothing provided

He can watch the world go by, daydream, make up stories in his head, think about his day or what he'll do tomorrow... Why does a child (or an adult) need an object to occupy themselves?

I like "just being" and remember lots of it as a child too. My parents adored me but never felt compelled to chatter on at or play with me all the time or indeed provide me with tools to entertain myself.

I don't believe children have fewer rights than adults, but perhaps sometimes different rights from adults, because they have different needs.

However, I do think it is very important that children (one's own children, that is) should be treated as family, which means pulling together as a family, being aware of the needs of other family members, giving way to the convenience of outsiders (offering the last slice of pie or the comfy chair to the guest). I want to foster that sense of "we are all in this together" which was such a good part of my own childhood.

But I hasten to add that David Cameron will not be invited to join. Unfortunate choice of phrase, that

Brices, it was this: book

It could have been me, I frequently try to catch up with reading whilst waiting for kids. If one of the others was with me and not disturbing me, great! If they were then of course I'd talk to them. My kids have always been able to occupy themselves some of the time. We have mad in depth conversations (I try not to loud parent, but have been known to discuss chlorophyll and chloroplasts with my 9 year old), but other times we get one wi our own thoughts.
I also spend evenings reading, whilst DH watches TV or works on his laptop etc.
I used to sit next to a Mum from DCs school whilst our kids had back to back swimming lessons together, so we were there for an hour each week. Sometimes we chatted, sometimes we read our books. It wasn't rude.

Of course children have few rights than adults. The adults in my house have the right to choose when and what to eat, when to go to bed, whether to brush their teeth or not, where they can go, who with and when....
The children have none of those rights. Because they are children. Isn't it obvious that there are very different rules for children?
Saying that, my husband doesn't have the right to be entertained by me when I want to read my book either. I'm an equal opportunity ignorer.

As for whoever asked what a child can do to entertain themselves without outside stimulation, well I despair. Has thinking and imagination entirely gone out of fashion?

I couldn't sit for five minutes without something to do so it is probably it surprising that my children can't either. They can entertain themselves with stuff/toys/books/other people but they can't stand in one place for half an hour without making a sound or doing something else.

What I do have an opinion on is the rights of the child and I completely disagree that they should have fewer rights than adults, Joan/quirrel. There: my first categorically stated opinion on the whole thread!!

It's hard to know without the background. It's important that children learn to entertain themselves. It could be that the mother suggested things he could do and he didn't want to, in which case, he's old enough to be left to his own devices.

If however the mother doesn't pay him much attention and never engages, yes that seems sad.