To wonder if talking to your child should take precedence over reading your book

[clemetteattlee]

I genuinely don't know how I feel about this one but it has been on my mind since yesterday (I am revising for exams so my mind is easily distractable at the moment) so I thought I'd see what you think.

At the cafe of the swimming baths with my daughter last night, waiting for my MIL and son to finish his lesson and come down. Next to us was a woman reading a novel and a child who must have been about eight or nine. For half an hour she read her book and didn't speak to him. He didn't have anything to do but equally wasn't playing up. He just stood there watching the world go by, occasionally scuffing his heels.

Now I am by no means the perfect parent - my daughter and I were playing drawsomeon my phone not having a deep chat, and when I am on holiday or at home I do get engrossed in a book and try and encourage my two to do something independently, but they are in an environment where there is stuff to do rather than in a grungy cafe with nothing to occupy them.

I am not judging this woman, who knows what her child/relationship/background is like, but I suppose I wondered if this is unusual behaviour, or maybe I just play "entertainer" to mine too readily?

Stop saying you don't have a view because you do. You seem to have concocted a narrative in your head in the 30 minutes you observed this woman and child. Neglect being the worst case scenario. And, many posters are in mild disbelief with your "observations". Most of them also think you are wrong in your conclusions.

And stop saying you aren't judging because you are. You compared her situation to yours. If that isn't judging, what is?

I compared, in my head, my children's personality/demeanour in public to the other child's. Believe me I wish my children were ever quiet. I simply can't imagine myself ever being able to do what she did (because ofthe nature of my children) so I asked if other people did. People seem determined to see a fight here (my own fault for posting in AIBU) but there isn't one to be had.

Mynewpassion, would you like to quote my "observations" and "conclusions" back to me verbatim because I dnt think I have made any judgement/conclusion at all...

I agree with you OP!

Well, what I agree with is that it's sad if a child is routinely ignored (though we can't really know anything about the mum and boy in question).

I was ignored as a child and told to shut up, and I can guarantee it's a good way of making someone feel completely unimportant

OP - I agree with you too.

The years go so quickly and her son will soon be growing up. Reading books can wait... at least until he's asleep or occupied by something else.

Had she been sitting with an adult she would never have been so rude as to read a book for 30 minutes, would she?

I can't stand people pretending not to have an opinion or made a judgement when its patently clear they have. Its in the OP and every subsequent post.
Its disingenuous and childish to pretend otherwise.

And reading books can wait? Why should it? More fool you if you feel the need to entertain your children at all times, all you're doing is creating children who can't entertain themselves and think you're there to cater to their every need. Try ignoring your child a bit, you'l be doing them a favour.

"Mynewpassion, would you like to quote my "observations" and "conclusions" back to me verbatim because I dnt think I have made any judgement/conclusion at all..."

Unfortunately, you did,
"I have read that if you routinely ignore them they don't expect to get attention, I couldn't tell of course whether this was a one off or if he had become habitually used to being ignored in favour of a book.."
"but what can they do to entertain themselves in a cafe with nothing provided"

But there is your reason,

"I overcompensate with my children because I work stupidly long hours and I had a crappy childhood."

It's kind of 'old-fashioned' parenting, I think. I'm not that old but my parents are older than most people my age as they had me later in life and I was really raised to amuse myself, especially as the youngest of 4. My mother would take me out with her on errands and I was never given any toys or anything to amuse myself. Some of my main childhood memories are of sitting around in a church or a shop or a hospital waiting for my mother or father just walking around in circles or counting things to make up games.

I was very bright and inquisitive as a child (still am I hope! ) and never lacked resources to keep myself amused. It was just understood that my parents had things to do that didn't necessarily involve me but they liked having me along for company.

With my son, I try to do this modern thing of constant stimulation (he's still a baby) but I do also parent the way I was brought up and let him get on with his own entertainment (knocking things over, banging things to make noise, whacking his head off furniture while exploring etc...). I think a happy medium is the key.

This idea that it's 'French' to let your kids get on with things is silly though and that book annoys me - it's how most people were raised in all countries before the 1980s/1990s. The French are just less susceptible to cultural fads. People in the past would have laughed out loud at the idea of parents creating entertainment for their children.

Believe me JoanofNark if I had an opinion would be stating it very forcefully, not "pretending" I didn't have one. Do you have a formed and fixed opinion about every aspect of life? Neither do I.

Birds they are questions not statements.

remembers Dh and I often read rather than chat. My Mother and I are the same. Close families can enjoy companiable silence.

Endless chat can be grating.

If you say so. You might want to re-read your posts then because you are giving a very strong impression of an opinion.

clement you might not have an opinion, but you definitely have a perspective and a bias on this which is coming through loud and clear.

I give up. I was interested in hearing from people for whom this approach was the norm to get a better understanding of how other people do things. I was also interested in hearing if there are other views. My interest is both personal and professional. Sorry to raise so many hackles.

PS If anyone is interested in the issue rather than in telling me what I think/mean I would be very happy to read your views.

so what if she has an opinion?

i mean if she did have one

I think the key is that you say 'most days I only get an hour to talk to my children ... so I need to make every second count' .

I have endless time with my DS although he is at school between 9-3.30 - but he has just got home, slumped in front of the TV and firmly closed the door so I am happily mumsnetting.

I don't think it is at all healthy to devote every waking hour to entertaining your child, and a child of 8 or 9 could very easily amuse him/herself. They probably had homework in their bag that they were refusing to do . And, as others have said, it is well documented that if you want your child to be a good reader they need to see their parents read regularly.

(Home at six, eldest in bed reading by seven, youngest being read to.)

You're still doing it. "For whom this approach is the norm"...what approach? You don't know this womans approach to parenting, you are assuming things about her with no evidence.

This is the fact that you are not seeing, you are asking a question based on no foundation. And if all you wanted was a little chat about different parenting styles, what are you doing in AIBU?

Over compensating for shortcomings in your own situation is fine. Projecting that need to compensate onto other people isn't really going to work. There is no reason they should feel the need to compensate for the long hours you work.

My db judges me and dd for openly admitting that we sometimes need time apart. He is a non-resident parent (for work reasons, not divorce) and obviously needs every precious minute with his ds to be quality time; he can never admit that he gets tired or bored.

What he can't see that he is projecting this situation onto us and that the same needs do not apply to a parent and child who are together every day for many hours and for long periods are together 24/7. There is only so much quality time you can cope with tbh before you get exhausted.

What my db does in his situation is right for them. What I do in our situation is right for us. Because I have so many more hours to fit quality time into, I can still manage more of it.

Going by the info given, my opinion is that had it been another adult with whom she was waiting, it would have seemed a bit rude/unsociable to sit there reading, and that that should count for children, too.

But, there is no way of knowing their situation. Perhaps he had some kind of entertainment with him and chose to people watch instead. Perhaps he didn't mind her reading and appreciated a little down time. Perhaps perhaps perhaps.

Judge not lest you be judged, or something.

I am talking abut the approach mentioned at the beginning of the thread as outlined in the "French children don't..." book..

I asked: "I am not judging this woman, who knows what her child/relationship/background is like, but I suppose I wondered if this is unusual behaviour, or maybe I just play "entertainer" to mine too readily?" loads of people replied that it is a style of parenting they do themselves. And then a couple of people started banging on about how I am making judgements and I, because I am supposed to be revising and therefore am easily distractable, am rising to the bait. Bah to me.

Trying again to spell it out:

if you get an hour of waking time/weekday with your dc and all those are quality time (time when you actively engage with each other)

and I get 7-14 hours/day with dd and we spend maybe 2 of those hours reading books or not engaging with each other and the remaining 5-12 hours talking and engaging actively with her

it will still be dd and I who have an awful lot more quality time together

but it will also be dd and me who are judged for my "parenting norms" if spotted by random strangers in cafes

I think the OP has been a bit unfairly got at.
I understand where she is coming from - i think it is possible that the child isn't making a fuss at not having any attention paid to him because he is used to it making no difference - eg he would be ignored anyway - but it is more likely that he is fine thet if he wanted something he could ask and would have her attention. I also think that if the OP had decsribed the other mother as being on the phone/texting/reading the daily mail/doing her makeup etc the reaction could have been different.
I am surprised that the child was happy doing nothing- it is different from being able to entertain your self IMO. but i don't have much expereicne of this age group.
i think a lot of mothers feel like OP that they should make best use of their time and be engaged - I do despite it driving me mad as achild when my mother would follow me around asking me questions about my day

Not about children but i have seen people get on a train or plane for a four or five hour journey with nothing but a 'take a break' type magazine and expecting their companion to entertain them by chatting.

My DH and i take books and he takes his ipad or DS when we travel and when my kids are old enough to i'd expect them to too.

My mum would have said to me as a child 'it's going to be a long wait, have you got somethign with you to do? colouring, or a book or puzzles' if i'd played up and refused to get something then she'd have said 'tough, you'll be bored' just like if i refused to put a coat on she'd say 'tough, you'll be cold'.