Is it U to use the NHS when you dont live in the UK ?

[bijou3]

My sister had a baby last weekend, the poor nurses were so busy as the maternity ward was full. Some of the Mothers in the ward were talking apparently 5 women in the ward were from the Middle East (UK citizens living there) that had come back to the UK to give birth. They were laughing about how they earn TAX free money but instead of using their health care abroad they use the NHS FOC for each delivery. I couldn?t believe that 5 women were all sponging off the NHS in one hospital, how many others do this?

• where most of the dOctors are quacks

First I would like to remind us all that many of the doctors on the NHS are not british born and bred and that a good number of them are in fact from the ME. Sir Magdi Yacuob , who is renown and highly reputed, is originally Egyptian. Second the NHS whilst being a respected service has had its fair share of mistakes and catastrophes. This article highlights some of this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6216559/One-in-six-NHS-patients-misdiagnosed.html

And getting back to the initial post.Is the NHS being abused, why yes of course but not exclusively by "foreigners" and I should think us Brits who decide to go to the ME -and many many do and have every year-it is unfair for them to want the financial benefits and then trash all that is ME! I know many Brits who have been living in Dubai for well over 15 years and are perfectly happy and quite rich from it. They count their blessings everyday and realise with maturity that every country and every culture is different and learn to accept and embrace the differences and try to understand the negatve aspects without being generalistically harsh.

Hilly, when YOU DECIDE to become an Expat you forfeit your rights to receive free NHS, education and any other perk you have being a FULL TIME resident of the UK. You simply cannot have your cake and eat it. I paid for any healthcare I received in the Middle East and if they couldn?t facilitate my needs I came back to the UK and paid for my treatment privately.
We live in the UK, I PAY for my children?s education, I PAY for my private healthcare I don?t even use the NHS GP because I?m in a fortunate position to do so. I also pay the higher tax bracket but so what, by us not using state recourses it allows someone WHO REALLY NEEDS IT to benefit. Oh and just because you are a travelling spouse please don?t assume that I am

How funny. The same old same old on MN. What are the actually numbers, no-one knows but it's causing a huge bun fight anyway.

Bijou, you don't rescind the NHS for 5, yes 5, fucking years.

Hoever, if you have found expats aggressive in the past perhaps it's because you persist in criticising and mocking them and making endless digs at their expense, whilst conveniently forgetting that you 'gloated' over a tax free salary for a few years yourself.

Endless digs, hardly its called difference of opinion. If you are happy in a 3rd world country, that is your choice. I dont remember ever mentioning my tax free salery as we have our own company there therefor any monies brought back into the UK will be taxed.

MEEXPAT, you just reaffirmed my thoughts on expats

That's an excellent post Gyspy.

I paid for all those things in the UK too Bijou (although I did use the NHS GP, dentist and the NHS for childbirth) and where did I make any assumptions about you being a trailing spouse? What difference does it make whether you worked in Dubai or not, or followed you DH or not? You lived off a tax free income one way or another. Or did you save 40% of it all up and dutifully handed it back to Alistair Darling the day you arrived home?

Anyway, for the third time, what would you have done (given that you have a very poor opinion of healthcare Dubai) if your medical insurance had not covered private obstetrics in the UK? Pay for it yourself? Ok, so let's assume you couldn't afford to pay to go private. What then? Not all expats are rolling in money as well you know.

The thing is Bijou, if I rocked back up in the UK tomorrow, with not a penny to my name, school aged children in tow, and said my marriage had ended and I'd come home, I would be automatically entitled to housing, HB, income support, NHS healthcare, schooling, the whole lot. All I'd have to do is arrive. And ask. Because I am entitled to be there, and I'm entitled to be supported there, whether I intend paying any tax or not. Because I am British.

I know someone who lived in the UK as a 'single mother' and bought subsidised low-cow housing, had subsidised council tax etc, worked in a low paid job claiming tax credits etc, did a part time degree with financial help as she had to support a child, used state education for her child, while her long term DP and father of her child (they had been together for many years) earned good money working in the UAE, and contributed nothing to the UK household - the slack was picked up by the state. They spent the school holidays visiting him in their house in UAE, and having a lovely time, and he'd go home a couple of times a year to stay with them in the UK house. This went on for years.

Now that is having your cake and eating it.

And it's great for you that you could always afford to go private but perhaps others cannot. Some people are just doing what they can to hold their heads above water and avoid unemployment at home. It could be worse - they could be claiming benefits at home and clogging up the NHS by having babies.

Anyway, as I said, I do not disagree with you in theory, but I think if they want to crack down on British expats using the NHS (and I'll lump state boarding schools in with that as well - same principle) they need to look a bit more closely at ALL forms of opportunistic parasitic behaviour - especially from those who are not even British. It's just odd that you choose to pick on British expats when they can be argued to at least have some historic entitlement.

"Blame the crazy system, not the people who 'abuse' it."

No, blame both.

People stealing expensive healthcare they are not entitled to just because they can are no different from or better than any other kind of benefit cheat.

"Oh I know loads of people on benefits who use the NHS and never pay a penny in tax."

You know people on benefits who are exempt from VAT?

I have heard of lots of people that have moved back to the UK from the ME with not a penny to their name, after it?s all gone horribly wrong over there. They received accommodation, schools, healthcare etc etc, that is what it?s there for WHEN YOU NEED IT, not when you fancy it.
For the record I don?t agree with foreigner healthcare tourism either, the system is flawed and through these flaws the next generation will suffer.

Hilly pm me. I live in Dubai and can talk to you about uni fees.

Incidentally I don't know anyone who returned to the uk to give birth, in fact 2 friends are giving birth here in the next two months and two have already given birth here this year. I don't believe the op story, not sure if it's embellishment or blatant pot stirring. Given I work in a school and previously had frequent interaction with mums to be, most find health care here to be fine. Yes of course people miss their families but that is part of the price of the expat life we pay. Ds had an emergency appendix op at the American hospital, he and were more than satisfied. Yes I am looking for an arthritis consultant for ds when we are back in the uk this summer but my insurance will be paying.

And bijou I only know of one family who have returned with nothing, and no they didn't get anything. Her father had to help them out till she got a job. All the others I know who've left have gone home because their contract ended.

Sigh. My American citizenship is a constitutional right. The Constitution is a huge major big deal that Americans take very seriously, it's why we're stuck with lethal weapons being sold in corner shops. They can't blardy take it away that easily. And often, American govt. would rather their Bad Guys kept it, just so that the US can lock Terrorists up properly themselves rather than rely on Rogue Foreign states.

SuperScimper some countries have residency requirements for people?s kids to gain their nationality, and others have idiotic religious rules that do not allow children to inherent one parant?s nationality.

It is extremely important to me that my child is British because that is what she is. UK has been my home, she was conceived there and just because I worked away for a faction of my life or that her grandparents had another nationality does not mean she should too.

exexpat thanks, you seem to have a logical mind and some understanding of the legal complications.

Bijou I hope it is still around. I shall be back in the UK in a few years when kid is old enough for school and will be back paying taxes in the UK system (no worries, my child is not going into privately funded education).

Supermum being born in the UK does not give anyone the automatic right to become British unless that said child?s parants are also born in the UK.

Anyway, life is too short to worry about these things. I love the NHS and my GP and midwife know where I live. If they ask me to pay them I will. I am loaded because I work hard (and pay taxes) abroad instead of being in the UK and being on benefits!

ooops I meant my child WILL go into private education.

Roundtable is right, if you are unmarried you cannot give birth in UAE as it is illegal and a birth certificate cannot be granted. So unmarried women who are british often do return to the UK to give birth as a result and the return to UAE afterwards.

Bil lives in the US but when he comes back to the Uk to visit he uses the nhs here for treatment, then has the cheek to moan about people here sponging off the government on benefits and how America wouldn't tolerate that and people there work for their money

Sorry I don't have time to read the whole thread right now but wanted to comment. I live overseas and whenever we are in UK (for around 4 weeks each summer) there is no way we would get to use any NHS facilities - how do expats manage that?!

We found a private dentist and have medical checks etc all of which have to be done privately. It can become very complicated trying to get referrals and we even have to pay private GPs just for referrals as we're not allowed to be registered with an NHS GP anymore. We have to do all medical and dental care in the UK as we live in a very remote place with no medical facilities.

We don't pay UK tax but we do pay National Insurance which I believe entitles us to health care, however in practice we would never get appointments within the time frame we are in UK.

We don't get much of the money we spend back off the insurance, however I see it as just one of those things as we are well paid for living where we do. Most people I meet from other countries are amazed at the idea of any free health care at all.

My parents live in Spain full time but usually spend a few /months with me a year in the UK. They've both worked throughout their adult lives, contributing tax until they retired.

My Dad is in very poor health but benefits from the reciprocal arrangement the UK has with Spain and other EU countries. Great! But he's not covered in the UK. He can't get health insurance as he's too high risk. How we discovered this - after coming to visit me and ended up having a heart attack - whilst he was recuperating and attached to heart monitors checking him over a nurse said 'YOU shouldn't be covered - you're going to have to pay for this treatment'- niiiiice. Maybe my parents should've investigated this before. But to be told it while you're pretty bloody ill makes my blood boil.

My parents aren't rich silver surfers enjoying the high life in a lovely villa in Spain - far, far from it. And they can't actually afford to move back even if they wanted to as the house prices are so astronomical and the Spanish housing market is dire.

I think its crazy that EU citizens coming over would be eligible to free NHS treatment, UK citizens would be eligible to free treatment in an EU country, but a British citiizen who isn't classed as a full time resident would not be eligible. Except for emergency treatment - my father needed quite a lot of emergency treatment, but whilst recuperating needed what would've been classed as non-emergency. Where is the line drawn - once he was no longer having a heart attack would they have started charging from that moment? How stable would he have to be before he was classed as non-emergent? And what a terrible worry for people like my parents - as my Mum put it she didn't realise that the NHS had started practicising non-voluntary euthanasia!

As luck would have it I discovered he was exempt due to his War Pension - but bloody hell, at an incredibly stressful time this was the last thing my family needed. I think this is an area that needs looking into closely - its not a one size fits all solution.

warzone It was explained to me by immigration that if you are resident in the UK and you have a child in the UK then you are entitled to British citizenship. That means if you are on a student visa, an asylum seeker etc and you have a child in the UK your child will be British. My friends who are in the same position as me but live in unstable countries (Kenya, Indonesia, Nigeria, Egypt, Lebanon and Nepal) are now planning on returning to the UK to have their children.

Nipitinthebud I can't imagine how awful that was for you to go through. I hope your Dad is doing ok.