Is it U to use the NHS when you dont live in the UK ?

[bijou3]

My sister had a baby last weekend, the poor nurses were so busy as the maternity ward was full. Some of the Mothers in the ward were talking apparently 5 women in the ward were from the Middle East (UK citizens living there) that had come back to the UK to give birth. They were laughing about how they earn TAX free money but instead of using their health care abroad they use the NHS FOC for each delivery. I couldn?t believe that 5 women were all sponging off the NHS in one hospital, how many others do this?

Jimmy's child, however, will not be able to pass on his British nationality if his child is born overseas, as he will be British by descent.

From this one can ascertain that anyone who has been non-resident in the UK for a year or more loses their right to automatic free treatment on the NHS. They will however still be treated, but they are liable for charges for their treatment. This is in line with the case of the expatriate Briton referred to in the first paragraph of this article. She had been living in Turkey for 5 years and had returned to the UK for essential treatment for liver and heart problems ? she received the treatment but was charged for it. Many feel that this is an unfair situation as the woman in question, and her husband, had worked all their lives in the UK and had made National Insurance contributions during that period of time. However, fair or unfair, the ruling stands ? once you become permanently non-resident in the UK you are no longer entitled to free treatment under the NHS. This loss of entitlement is understood to come into effect 12 months after you leave.

www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/health/more/living-abroad-medical-insurance-nhs-treatment-10272

Five women all from the middle east laughing and speaking English about coming here to give birth whilst avoiding doing so in their own tax free country.
You sure someone wasnt assuming this was the case?

MrsSchadenfreude - the friends I am thinking of are various combinations of third (or more) generation expat/army/diplomatic families, sometimes with a foreign grandparent or two added to the mix. Gets very complicated, and worrying if you live somewhere where you don't get the nationality if you are born there.

My DCs had to get British passports within 14 days of birth and apply for Japanese visas or they would have been illegal immigrants. If they hadn't been automatically entitled to British passports because of where their parents/grandparents were born, they would have been stateless.

MrsS - that only works if you're a member of the civil service. My niece was born overseas. Unless her children are born in the UK, they have no right to a British passport, even though they will be half British.

And just to correct one post - marriedinwhite - you are not entitled to free sight tests in the UK unless you're on benefits.

Aquashiv I think youve missed the point of the whole thread. They are British women living abroad that come back to the UK to sponge off the NHS. Several other posters have mentioned the same thing happening with their friends and family.

The NHS are notoriously hopeless at billing people.

My sister in law had a baby here that she was meant to pay for, and was happy to pay for, but she was never billed - she even chased it up.

I lived in the UAE for years. Most Expats come to the UK for ops and to give birth. The people that I have known that have done this have not lived in the UK for over 10 years. It?s wrong and it happens a lot more than you think.

I had words with a fellow expat on the subject of NHS treatment. She didn't have travel insurance or a European Blue health card for travelling home because she was "entitled" to NHS. She got very stroppy when I told her that she wasn't entitled to it. But we have a pretty good (but not as good) health service here too, so I really couldnt see what her problem was. Especially as the blue cards cost nothing to get.

I'm not sure what you want done about it OP. There are rules, it's not a loophole but if people flout them who do you want to chase them up? I know from my experience that I was asked many many times to prove that I was eligible for NHS treatment so there are definitely checks.

I am Canadian, dh and dd are British ( dd born in Canada, has UK passport) I came back to England to have dc2 with dd, dh is still working overseas until the end of the month. We plan to move back here, dh is looking for work, dd is registered in school, our furniture was shipped here. I am a former UK resident, with a GP and a permanent address. He has worked here for many years ( but not in the last 8) and I lived here for 12 years, so have paid Ni and NHS contributions.
I am not entitled to NHS service. I saw a midwife a few days after arriving, at 36 weeks, and was booked in for an investigation with a financial controller within a week. They told me that I had to pay a £1000 deposit and I am flagged as a fee payer when I go into hospital. I was also told that anyone with an outstanding NHS debt of £1000 or more will be refused a visa for re-entry. A non complicated birth costs £1251 these days, so not a huge amount of money for most expats.
I think the story in the OP was exaggerated. The accountant asked me a lot of questions, wanted to see my tickets, electricity bills and all kinds of other documents. I would be very surprised if these woman could all jump through these hoops at the same time.

so did you get a niece or a nephew OP?

congratulations btw :)

Alligator - it may of course be easier if you are (and sound) British - unless you mention that you don't currently live in the UK, and if you have a family member's address to use, or you never deregistered from you previous GP, the hospital might not think to ask.

dowagershump free eye examinations for all in scotland which is part of the UK only just

I'vde been in and out of hospital thhe last 18 months and asked about residency. So tell me, which airline carried these heavily pregnant women back to the UK to give birth?

@jumpingthroughhoops.

Re European health tourists. Whilst the NHS is a fine health service by global standards, it isn't particularly excellent by Western European standards and I don't see therefore how European health tourists could be a big problem. Individuals cases, perhaps.

I don't really understand what your claim about West Africans and Germany is (I don't see any mention of Germany in the article you link to), but please believe me, no-one who has access to German healthcare would give it up for Britsh healthcare on medical grounds. Not that British healthcare isn't good - but German healthcare is at least as good.

One question about this thread. Should NHS treatment be given primarly on the basis of nationality or primarily on the basis on paying taxes ? Because in the latter case ther's no reason not to provide full NHS care to any foreigner paying UK tax and their dependents.

I'm in one of these middle eastern countries and yes women do often go back to the UK to give birth. It's very rarely anything to do with cost (the majority would have private insurance anyway) but to do with being able to get the birth you want (in my country you have to labour lying on your back on a bed), being close to family, and women wanting to make sure their children are 'British other than by descent'.

It's pretty rare that someone would have been out of the UK for more than five years and so most of these women are doing this legally. I have never heard (where I am) of someone trying to get 'one over' the NHS - as I said the money is rarely a factor. For reference, if they're not playing by the rules I 100% agree they should be charged. Personally, I think 5 years is quite a long period of time to allow and I'd tighten it to 3.

You can fly up until 32-36 weeks pregnant with a medical note (number of weeks depends on the airline).

Re the passport issue. Until 1981, there was no distinction between 'British by birth' and 'British by descent', a British passport could be passed on for generations. However, now there is. My children are British by descent, this means they can't (automatically) pass their passports on. This doesn't bother me but I know it bothers some people.

If you are serving abroad in some circumstances (for example DH's dad was posted with the airforce in Singapore when he born) you count as if you were born in the UK. Not all overseas postings have this exception - for example my dad worked for the HK government and I don't count as born in the UK (although I'm pre-1981). I assume ex-expat's friends are a) relatively young and b) weren't born to parents on a qualifing posting.

Well i have bee in the middle east for the last 9 months, and in honesty wouldn't consider giving birth here. Attitudes are very different regarding a woman in labour, may women give birth to 6 plus kids so it really isn't considered to be a big deal. Whilst in private hospitals the standard of medicine is BETTER than UK, the care isn't.

i wouldn't think twice about coming back. It can really scary going through birth ad postatal times in a strabge country where everything is unfamiliar. We have been tax payers for years (and didn't use the NHS that much) so i'd also be booking myself in for a eye test, dental check up, smear etc.

Also as someone else mentioned regarding nationality it does matter where you are born. If my child is born outside of UK then their child would not be entitled to UK nationality unless he/she was bor there.

There certainly isn't much room for "medical tourism" anymore, they are very strict now ad anyoe who looks/sounds foreign will get asked lots of questions at A&E for proof.

ilovemydogandMrObama Sa

Your mum was entitled to free treatment because it was an emergency

Sorry if this has been asked already but how can women due to give birth in a week fly home? How would that be safe?
I can't believe these numbers,I think you have highly inflate them for whatever point you're making

Sorry if this has been asked already but how can women due to give birth in a week fly home? How would that be safe?
I can't believe these numbers,I think you have highly inflate them for whatever point you're making.

I haven't read all of this thread - just the first few pages. I don't think it can be true.
I lived in the US for a year. When on holiday in the UK I was admitted to hospital (via A&E). I stayed for 2 nights. 1 month later I was sent a bill for my care (to my sister's address). It wasn't a massive bill but because I was not resident in the EU I was required to pay for my care. So unless these ladies all has duel residency it sounds a bit off to me.

It?s very simple, British women who now live in the Middle East use their parents address in the UK when they return to give birth they register at a Doctors near their parents home and pretend that they are living back in the UK. You can fly with a doctors letter as late as 35 weeks.