Is it U to use the NHS when you dont live in the UK ?

[bijou3]

My sister had a baby last weekend, the poor nurses were so busy as the maternity ward was full. Some of the Mothers in the ward were talking apparently 5 women in the ward were from the Middle East (UK citizens living there) that had come back to the UK to give birth. They were laughing about how they earn TAX free money but instead of using their health care abroad they use the NHS FOC for each delivery. I couldn?t believe that 5 women were all sponging off the NHS in one hospital, how many others do this?

The thing is, the NHS can't really turn people away, can they? They can't judge who is genuinely in need or chancing it.

It can be a wonderful system - both my parents were nursed to their ends by absolute angels. One nurse on dads ward (which really was deaths waiting room) worked full time and volunteered in a hospice one day. I couldn't fault them - from the ladies who brought the tea to the consultants. This wasn't in London. When I was in A+E in London, waiting for a bed (don't move or you could die!!!) it was rushed, bursting at the seams, noisy and smelly (think MAS*H). The staff were fine - rushed off their feet though. This poor old lady in the next cubicle screamed solidly for 2 hours.

I was in a cubicle for a good chunk of the day while they tried to find me a bed and lost count of the number of tourists and assorted idiots and drunks coming in with headaches, hangovers and colds. The doctors were very patient. This was A+E - how could they not know the difference between a hangover and brain haemmorage?? And they were some coming in to ask for free asprin! DH had to sit on me when I decided to chime in 'its a bloody cold!'. Dr Paw was in the house, and my diagnostic skills are pretty good!! Why risk superbug with a cold FFS??

Maybe we need to bang it home to visitors about how exactly to use the health system here? It would save more time and money than women coming here to give birth.

So the woman in your example had a premie but didn't think to brag about the care she got for him/her too?!

The NHS is wonderful IMO. Every time I have used it I have had a pleasant, efficient service. If people keep abusing the system the NHS won?t be there for future generations.

Expatriate Britons have been caught up in a major crackdown on ' health tourists' announced by the Government yesterday.
Under new restrictions, people who fly to Britain to exploit the NHS will be denied free care.
The ban preventing visitors and failed asylum seekers from milking the system is likely to come into force by next April.
Health Minister John Hutton warned that health tourism was a 'significant' problem and swift action was needed to safeguard the NHS for taxpayers.
The new rules may lead to all patients being asked for proof of residence, such as a passport or electricity bill.
However, pensioners from the UK who live abroad for more than half the year will be denied free treatment.
No matter how much they have paid in tax and National Insurance over the years, such expatriates will now have to pay for NHS care back in Britain.
Only treatment for emergencies - such as heart attacks, accidents or sudden illness - will still be free.
The move will hit thousands who have retired to the Spanish costas, France or other European countries.
Under existing rules, pensioners are only supposed to spend up to three months abroad to qualify for free NHS care. But officials did not vigorously apply this rule.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-204961/UK-expats-fall-victim-health-tourism.html#ixzz1xNQBuIR0

Ah, a daily mail article. Must be totally accurate then

Announcement from last October on new rules to clamp down on health tourism here

www.drtribe.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=874:nhs-tourists-owe-p40m-in-unpaid-fees&catid=1:nhs&Itemid=182

Is this better?

Ok so you don't want to know if yabu then.

It seems like the relevant authorities are aware of the situation so no, I am not being unreasonable. The NHS should be for people living in the UK.

I think it is totally fair enough to want to travel home to give birth. In fact in many cultures it is universal. Imagine if someone told you you had to give birth thousands of miles away from your mum where you didn't understand the laws or the language or your rights to refuse intervention and where you perhaps would have your baby removed to a nursery after birth. Oh and your husband got no paternity leave. How frightening. And private maternity care is only really an option in London isn't it?

I think your story sounds very odd. 5 women all at the same time on the same ward?? and if they were living in the middle east they would have health insurance so wouldn't be doing it to save money anyway.

Ah so are you writing the follow up piece then OP? Is that why you keep capitalising the word TAX?

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/07/baby_boom.html

64,000 births in the uk to non British mothers.

however that is an aside. If the figure up the thread of £1,000 per baby delivery is accurate, then that is not a black hole of funding. It costs more to keep one juvenile in prison. Personally the care of mothers and babies is important.

As I said earlier, we are a civilised country. We do not turn people away in need.

I think it?s fair to have your baby where ever you want too, as long as you pay for it !!! From the links provided its obvious that there is a huge problem with people ripping off the NHS, let?s hope the new laws crack down on the thieves.

Ah so are you writing the follow up piece then OP? Is that why you keep capitalising the word TAX?

LOL, whats wrong with writing TAX in capitals ?

"i know someone who pops over from usa to have little things done on the nhs. kills two birds with one stone cos she sees her family and gets the health care done"

How can you "pop" over to get things done on the NHS? The waiting lists for even minor surgical procedures are massive. Unless you are talking about smear tests.

How is paying for ex pats to have babies under the NHS any different to allowing people on non disability related benefits to have babies under the NHS?

Apart from the fact that the parents who live abroad will then support their own children without relying on the British taxpayer, which people on income support type benefits in this country won't?

I came back from a non-EU European country while I was pregnant and found immediate agency work for a pittance and started paying taxes and NI. My DH followed a short while later and couldn't find work (it was at the worst of the worst of the recession) and was not entitled to JSA or any kind of benefits, tax credits or financial support whatsoever, despite us having a dc1, because of being out of the UK for x amount of time. HexagonalQueen, both of us paying tax and NI for decades before moving abroad did not, sadly, entitle us to anything at all in times of clear and extreme difficulty. It was only the generosity of family that meant we (dc aged 5, me heavily pregnant, and dh) were not out in the street.

I still don't know whether I should, technically, have been entitled to give birth 'for free' in an NHS hospital after the amount of time we'd been abroad and the short time we'd been back, but I'm extremely grateful that the excellent care I received saved my second son's life with an emergency cs. I'm also very glad I didn't stay where we were abriad to give birth, where DH would not have been allowed to be with me (and would simply have had to wait in the hospital car park), where I would not have been allowed to get off my back on the bed, where I would not be allowed to keep baby with me after birth, and where I would not have been at all confident of understanding and being understood mid-labour, despite my grasp of the language.

My entitlement was never mentioned by my busy GP, midwife, hospital staff, or HV. I'd guess they are far more concerned with getting their primary work done. The only remotely connnected thing I heard was from the midwives, complaining about how much of their sparce budget was going towards employing interpreters for the massive influx of new non-English speaking immigrants that had moved in to the city. But that's another can of worms...

If they live and work in middle east, they would probably get great care in a private hospital there but would have problems with nationality for their kids. Well sort of. It doesn't affect their children but therir children's children - nationality is only passed on for one generation if born outside the uk. Also, it is a lot easier to be with family and with native speakers when giving birth
The problem we have is our system is not set up to deal with this. They would probably be fine paying if asked.

Every Hospital Trust has a responsibility to be aware of this issue and ask entitlement questions of people who have lived overseas. Even when that happens you still end up with some huge unpaid bills.

Alligator - I am perplexed by your experience though. You ae the spouse of a UK citizen and you intend to make a permanent stay here. You should be entitled. Is it because dh doesn't have a job yet so you can't prove that you intend to stay?

northern my guess is that alligator is in a similar situation we are in. Despite being the spouse of a UK national, he has been out of the country too long to be entitled to anything.

are were

I was one of the 64,000 non-Brit-national mothers giving birth here, doesn't mean I wasn't resident, Just didn't want to cough up £££ to be naturalised.

I worked thru costs for flights, accommodation for 3-6 weeks in UK, contingencies, extra baby kit one would need only in UK or would be duplicated unless they wanted to haul it home on airplane: if living-abroad women are returning to the UK just to give birth, they certainly aren't doing it to save money.

I'm still puzzled wellies because yes - entitlement to benefits does require a length of residency but NHS entitlement doesn't. It starts as soon as you come back as long as you are entitled to be here and intend to make a permanent stay.

NHS entitlement should be afforded to any British citizen at any time. It has nothing to do with paying tax, it should be to do with whether you are a British citizen or not.

I can fully understand why ex pats would want their children to be born in the UK, for many reasons. And as British citizens that should have that right in the same way as millions of other non taxpayers do.

Outraged - and as I assume a resident and tax paying citizen you're happy to pay for that treatment are you? For somebody who say has spent 40 years in the USA making mega bucks and comes back to the UK for one week and then goes again? Really? I'm not. Entitlement comes with residency. That's the fairest way.