Is it U to use the NHS when you dont live in the UK ?

[bijou3]

My sister had a baby last weekend, the poor nurses were so busy as the maternity ward was full. Some of the Mothers in the ward were talking apparently 5 women in the ward were from the Middle East (UK citizens living there) that had come back to the UK to give birth. They were laughing about how they earn TAX free money but instead of using their health care abroad they use the NHS FOC for each delivery. I couldn?t believe that 5 women were all sponging off the NHS in one hospital, how many others do this?

Yes, I am happy to pay for that because if I decide to move out of the UK I would like the security of knowing that as a UK citizen I can return at any time and access healthcare.

There are plenty of people that don't pay tax yet are entitled to NHS care. I don't think eligibility should be based on residency at all, it should be based on citizenship. Otherwise you have people living here who have never paid a penny in tax entitled to treatment when others who have paid tax for years but then have decided to move away be entitled to nothing. How is that fair?

Because it's NATIONAL health service - heathcare for the benefit of the NATION - those who live here, who participate in the community. Tax contributions are a red herring. I've had free heathcare as a child including immunisations and dentistry. I've had three births on the NHS with all ssociated care. My children have NHS care including in dd2's case, 2 ECGs and around 6 cardiac echo scans plus appointments with a cardiologist. I reckon our NHS usuage is pretty small but do you think my tax contributions would cover it? Let alone the cost if something did go wrong? Money in, benefit out is too simplistic a view.

Bijou, care here is supposed to be free for all EU/EEA residents via the EHIC scheme, I thought?

Exactly, which is why I don't think entitlement should be based on how much tax you have paid in, it should be based on NATIONALITY.

A British person is still a British person no matter where in the world they live. So IMO they should always be entitled to British healthcare when in Britain.

Why should any European have more entitlement to the NHS than a British person does? I think residency is the red herring. Plenty of people live in the UK without paying tax or having citizenship, yet they can still get healthcare.

northern you see, this is (good) news to me: "...NHS entitlement doesn't. It starts as soon as you come back as long as you are entitled to be here and intend to make a permanent stay". I'd always worked out from the well hidden info available on dot gov websites and from the, frankly, quite clueless, helpline advisors that being away for long enough meant that a bill would be presented to you.

You'll get a bill if you're not staying permanently as far as can be forseen. If you are 'settled' and you have a right to be here then you're fine. It's this bit you need 'Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. ?Ordinarily resident? is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.' from this site

Outraged - I'm not going to engage with you anymore except to point out it's national healthcare not British healthcare. Your emphasis on nationality is giving me rather an unpleasant sensation btw.

I can't figure out how you could rock up to a surgery at 35 weeks pregnant & pretend you'd had no previous antenatal care; how would they establish EDD?? & if you did have documents pertaining to pregnancy care for previous 7 months in another country, then that should ring bells about residency rules & NHS entitlement.

The problem isn't the women who take advantage of the system, it's the lack of bells getting rung loudly. Admin not social problem.

Adventures - I agree but firstly people lie - a lot. Secondly - it's very hard to deal with a person who needs help and not help them because you're putting pounds and pence first. I am a NHS manager. I know we have to balance the books or we won't be providing good care for anybody AND yet people need help.......it's just very hard.

I can't believe it either. And don't

What? You can't believe that 5 wealthy ex pats from the middle east all went into labour at the same time at the same hospital and then all proceeded to spend their time widely proclaiming to all and sundry the nature of the scam they pulled and bragging about their extreme wealth? I know I believe every last word.

In other news ,I have just had a row with my partner. It happens so much these days it CAN'T BE BELIEVED but we have MADE UP and have decided not to over analyse the row and not get hung up where the fault LIES.

'I can't figure out how you could rock up to a surgery at 35 weeks pregnant & pretend you'd had no previous antenatal care; how would they establish EDD?? & if you did have documents pertaining to pregnancy care for previous 7 months in another country, then that should ring bells about residency rules & NHS entitlement.'

Actually the first bit is easy. We moved back to the UK at 32 weeks. By the time I'd got a phone line in the rented house and found a GP I was 35 weeks. And I'd had no prenatal care cos in the US you find your own Ob/Gyn from the list your insurance allows and not one in a 10 mile radius would take me on after 3 sections. I was too 'high risk'. So I saw no-one till we moved home.
Residency was checked but we were home permanently so it wasnt an issue. Just questioned at the hospital after the birth.

Northern - that is right. As we have not rented a place yet, and dh does not have a job offer, I am not entitled to care. And despite being eligible for an ancestry visa and a spousal visa, I entered the country on a tourist visa - and planned to get one once we had settled - i can currently stay for six months, but as we are going overseas in July, i thought i would wait until later to get it done. And apparently the law says that if you have a tourist visa then you are not entitled to NHS care.
Dd (6) is able to access the GP, but if we go to hospital for anything, we have to pay - that is what I find weird, despite her holding a UK passport.
I am totally fine with paying ( although I do have 2 medical insurance policies -neither of them cover mat care) - I am currently staying with my inlaws and fil is an avid Daily Mail reader- this situation has shown him that maybe you can't trust everything you read in the DM - and that alone has been worth it!

You EHIC card only covers emergency medical treatment - it's why you should always have travel insurance. I currently live in Belgium, but my dd had an accident in France last year. I had to pay 100 euros in cash for an ambulance transfer from A&E - no cash, no transfer. My travel insurance company picked up the tab for minor surgery and 1 night in hospital (700 euros) and then claimed that back (or most of it) from my social security mutuelle.

"There are plenty of people that don't pay tax yet are entitled to NHS care."

No they aren't.

You aren't entitled to NHS care unless you are resident here.

Everyone who lives here pays tax.

Which British citizens abroad do not.

The idea of a nationality-based healthcare system used by wealthy expats and paid for by poor immigrants to Britain is abhorrent.

And racist.

children dont pay tax. And get NHS care. Scrounging little buggers

I am an expat (British citizen, HK resident) and disagree with Outraged, in that I think it's right that entitlement is based on current residency not nationality

We pay income tax where we live (Hong Kong) but very little in the UK (as non-UK residents don't pay tax on their overseas income, only their UK income, of which we have very little).

There are a number of reasons why I don't think we shd be able to just come back on our hols and avail ourselves of the NHS.

Firstly, we are entitled to free/ v low cost public healthcare in Hong Kong, where we currently pay taxes, so it is fair.

Secondly, if you're living somewhere where a big draw is low/no income tax (eg Middle East, many Asian countries) where the public healthcare is not as good as you'd like, you can easily use some of your gross income to get health insurance and go private in that country.

It is true about expats being denied health care. A close relative of mine who has lived abroad for many years received a letter informing her that she would not be entitled to free NHS care if she returned to the UK.

However - she knows many expats who have retained a UK address in order to access benefits. One woman manages to claim a pension in three countries through jiggery-pokery, and claims housing benefit in two.

:o KalSkirata - I forgot about the childers!

Parasites the lot of them.

10 miles isn't far at all to drive in the USA, KalSkirata . Now if you had said 100 miles I'd start to understand. And they did ask questions, didn't they?

I didnt drive Adventures. I braved those roads on a bicycle! 10 miles when pregnant in Virginia heat was my limit. To be honest I was shocked a doctor could say no. I 'interviewed' many. Only one german Ob/gyn would consider it was she wanted me to have weekly scans. I said no, she told me to push off.
I came home
(kinda glad now as dd was brain damaged and even with insurance we'd of been bankrupted!) I love the NHS

NHS entitlement should be afforded to any British citizen at any time. It has nothing to do with paying tax, it should be to do with whether you are a British citizen or not.

That would be fun in Northern Ireland

While I have some doubts as to the veracity of the story as told, I don't see that there is necessarily an issue with expats using the NHS free of charge, if they are only abroad for a short time.
If, OTOH, like me they have emigrated permanently, then they shouldn't be able to access the service without paying something towards it.

This is one of the problems with the NHS though - that they do provide the service free at point of contact and then people who aren't entitled to it refuse to pay, thus mightily taking the piss, IMO.

Having said that, I am still a British taxpayer (have a rented house in the UK), so according to some of you I'm entitled to it in that respect - but because I'm not a resident there any longer, I'm not. Residency takes precedence over tax-payment.

This is one of the problems with the NHS though - that they do provide the service free at point of contact and then people who aren't entitled to it refuse to pay, thus mightily taking the piss, IMO.

That's the problem, because "non-residency" is basically established between you and the inland revenue but there's nothing dished out to you to say that's the case, so I could easily walk back into an NHS hospital when I'm home to visit family, and presumably they wouldnt challenge me on it. I could just write my parent's address (and have correspondance to back it up as my parents keep my mail for me).

I would own up though. I'd feel too guilty and in any case, my travel insurance would cover it.

Agree with Thumbwitch that tax is irrelevant because everyone in the world is required to pay UK tax on UK income (regardless of nationality/residency). What non-residents dont pay is UK tax on their non-UK income. Therefore there are a LOT of non-British residents (and many non-nationals) paying some degree of UK tax. They shouldnt all be entitled to NHS treatment.

Isn't it all basically swings and roundabouts? I paid tax and NI for years and years in the UK, never used the GP, except for smears. Then I moved to Canada, became a permanent resident, got pregnant and had a very expensive pregnancy and birth (I was in hospital for what seemed like weeks!) which Canadians paid for. My DD will probably grow up here and contribute but someone else got the benefit of a birth on me in the UK, if you look at it like that.

I know someone (British) who lives abroad with his foreign girlfriend but went to Britain for the birth of their baby,and used an NHS hospital. When I visit I use my medical insurance rather than NHS because I just don't have the front to lie about where we live. ILs think I'm being stupid of course.