to ask, can you all just make it clear whether you are WC or MC?

[bejeezusWC]

so I know whether I value your opinion on any given topic, or whether I will just humour you

I am working class, just so you know. Although 'I pass' for MC, so I may be moving amongst you undetected. be afraid

And my WC sister went to Oxford and my brother and WC SSIL met at Cambridge Uni
My sister and brother went to Nothumberland park secondary.

And I'm naive? It can't happen?
Every working class child is headed for sainsburys checkout?

When my DCs in whatever they choose to do with their lives, I and they can attribute that to their own hard work and effort, not knowing the right people

when my DCs succeed sorry for missing out a word.

"SIL is a corporate lawyer at a major American bank based in London. They only recruit from Oxbridge and of this years intake 80% were privately educated."

Maybe all poor people have stupid children.

Didn't you know that no poor peoples DCs have decent jobs?

McDonald's and sainsburys here we come?!

Must tell my mum that.

Tantrums, do you believe that the UK is a true meritocracy? Where there is no inequality of opportunity, and no elite?

We all know people from wc backgrounds who are successful, highly educated etc. My dad, for instance.

But you must be living in la la land if you don't think that statistically, having MC or uc background will generally result in higher level of education/ job success.

Did you watch the documentary 7 Up?

Over on bf/ff nobody accepts that anecdote trumps data.

Show me the data that says education, health and job success aren't still linked with social background even now, more so now.

"Didn't you know that no poor peoples DCs have decent jobs?

McDonald's and sainsburys here we come?!

Must tell my mum that."

Could be worse... Could be aldi shudder

I don't think that for one second that everyone is equal, I'm not denying the class system exists, of course it does.

However I think it's wrong, and I think that people who take it and agree with it, tO the point of belittling other people and assuming that children of WC class parents are not successful are instrumental in ensuring there is a MC/WC divide.

But that's just my opinion.

I didn't read the whole thread, so my apologies if somebody here did say that all wc kids will go to work in a mcjob.

But if they said that in general it was more likely, they were right.

Sorry not mcdonalds, sainsburys wasn't it?

And no, it's generally not right FFS.

I meant factually correct, not morally right.

And I assumed mcjob covered all service industry work but ok, Sainsburys.

Aldi and lidls pay better wages

Well then I will definitely teach my DCs that the good jobs are for the middle class and shame on them for thinking they can aspire to anything else. Because that's factually correct. And if everyone keeps thinking like that, then we will all be ok.

I don't get your point. Loads of wc kids do well, especially those with parental support behind them.

Why on earth would you tell them not to aspire? I should think all MNers have high aspirations for their kids, whatever their background.

I haven't suggested that you tell them its right that they may be less likely to succeed. I think the opposite - tell them how much you want them to succeed, and be proud of their background. Indeed, if they are successful and well educated they'll be better placed to smash stereotypes.

I think you have totally misunderstood me, tantrums. I just saw a news report about homophobia at higher levels in UK business. They had a spokesman saying that change had to happen to eradicate the inequality. He had experienced the homophobia himself.

Should he just have said how dare you suggest that all gay kids will fail in business?

I want to eradicate any kind of inequality. But denying it exists is hardly the answer.

"Well then I will definitely teach my DCs that the good jobs are for the middle class"

Please point to where I say that the good jobs are for the middle class?

If you are going to argue with me then please, please base it on what I actually said.

Somebody said exams aren't important when you are a just kid. Various experts and MNetters have made the point that parental aspirations largely dictate how academic a kids becomes. I was conveying the thought that if this relaxed attitude towards education was an indicator of things to come then the poster's kid will probably be destined for a Macjob. Another poster said that a job at Macs is pretty good. Maybe...if you compare it to Primark. Hence my remarks about low aspirations.

If you choose to look at my remarks about parental aspirations and deduce from this that I am denigrating you then that says more about your attitudes than it does of mine.

I'm not denying it exists, however the statements that (paraphrasing) that WC DCS will more than likely be working a menial job, less likely to get into a top Uni etc is exactly the type of comments that causes people from aWC background think they have nothing to aim for.

I wonder if you get discount if your kids work at primarks

am a dirty forriner. so, vair vair mc in home country, and barely scraping the barrel of wc in current country, but with bonus confusing posho accent that throws all locals off scent.

Tantrum - its not clear if you attributing those remarks to me or posters in general. If you are attributing those remarks to me then it is a totally inaccurate summary of my views.

I am where I am because I had aspirational (WC) parents. Why would I turn around and tell another WC parent not to aspire to anything better than a macjob?

pressed enter too soon.

The reality is that WC kids are less likely to go to a good Uni and more likely to end up in a menial. I am NOT saying that is what I think. This is what has been concluded by people who study these kind of trends

And ain't the MC happy about that.

Yes housework I believe you do.

@usual - Why do I get the impression that you blame your problems on the MC? :o

I have no problems

The MC on the other hand seem to be full of angst , I'm quite happy with my macjob thanks

I don't aspire to be like you