to ask if you smack your children?

[toofattorun]

I am not talking beating! Just a smack on the hand or bum when they are being very rude or naughty.

Thanks for your concern oopsi, but he is restrained - I have him by the hand. When he ran into traffic, I wasn't holding his hand, and I'd started to trust him walking by me rather than hand in hand. I simply don't trust him to do this now.

Sometimes, sometimes not. He often simply ignores me. 1-2-3 works well with DS, but not easy to do if I haven't got his attention!

I think in that case there's no point in using it. Annoying as it is you need to be close enough to him that you can step in and intervene if there's a problem with another child. It's important to tackle any genuine problems with interacting with other children before he starts school.

"I'd run after him and tell him that the ball didn't belong to him and give him a chance (with help!) to work out that the right thing to do would be to give the ball back"

I kind of feel I shouldn't have to constantly run after him to manage his behaviour though IYSWIM? If I did, I'd spend the whole time in the park running after him! We'd look ridiculous! I don't see other parents doing this.

"Annoying as it is you need to be close enough to him that you can step in and intervene if there's a problem with another child. "

There's no way I could be close to him all the time, it would mean not going to the park, basically!

Why couldn't you be close to him most of the time? My DS is 18 months and isn't able to manage the park on his own so I have to be close to him, I have no choice. Otherwise he would get badly hurt or end up clashing with another child.

I don't think it's unusual to be close by your child at 3.5 that said I have lost all sense of what's typical as I still have to be at arms length to ds who is 17 and near dd who is 9 because of the autism. I'm pretty sure mine were getting on for five before I could sit on a bench and watch from a distance tbh.

Yeah, I remember having to follow my dd around at toddler group when she was 3 too. It was odd because it was a bit of a back step from a 2 year old who stayed nearby but played nicely, to a 3 year old who wanted to be all around but couldn't deal with the other children in an appropriate way. She started hitting and just snatching toys away, and I could have let that happen and used some way to teach her that the behaviour was unacceptable (like shouting or a punishment) but it seemed to make far more sense to invest some time into teaching her strategies for dealing with the situation herself. Which meant being right there to model behaviours when the issue first started to develop rather than waiting for her to have already taken the toy and children to already be upset.

It took about 2 months I think, where the entire time I was right there next to her. And then suddenly it never seemed to happen again and I started to feel confident that she could come find me if there was a problem since it was all in one hall. So then I could stand nearby and chat while she played. It was, like callin said a gap in her knowledge not her misbehaving for the sake of it.

calin can I pick your brain sorry. Ds is 18 months and I wondered at what she any sort of discipline should be started and how you would suggest starting to gently discipline I don't want to smack shout or anything of that nature. I've been told they don't really understand until three but thought I'd check. Is there any reading you recommend? Know it's a bit off topic but might help someone who has thought about smacking

I couldn't be close enough to him for him to hear me talk at normal volumes at all times, because he runs off. When we go to the park he wants to run around / play football with the big boys etc.

There's simply no way I could keep up with him for the whole time, I'd be exhausted!

I could follow him round at a toddler group, but not the park it's massive! I'm talking about the park not the playgound.

Pickle, there have been loads of threads in the parenting section if you do a search for "unconditional parenting support" you will probably find some and they have loads and loads of examples and advice.

Unconditional Parenting is a bit of a wanky name and is often misunderstood but is basically what Cailin describes - ie, discipline as in "to teach" rather than being focused on some set system of punishments and/or rewards. It focuses more on "filling the gaps in their knowledge" than reacting specifically to "good" or "bad" behaviour.

Sorry if that is a bit jumbled, I'd explain more but I have a really bad headache and I'm pretty tired.

three - but presumably, he's within seeing distance, you wouldn't let a 3 year old go out of sight. So you'd notice he'd taken the ball and/or that the other child was upset. (Although TBH if he was in a big group of children I'd be tempted to let them work it out between themselves )

In that instance I'd probably shout but as a communication thing, not as a punishment thing! You'd just call over to him "DS, give the ball back" - but presumably if he didn't then you'd go over and deal with it anyway.

Think of it as how you would react if a friend/your partner/etc spoke to you in that way. If they shouted in order that you could hear them because you were at the other side of a field, you wouldn't be upset, but if they came up to you and started ranting at you, or barked an order at you instead of asking nicely, you probably would be upset.

I tend to slip into shouting if I ask DS something and he ignores me, but I tend to just repeat in the main what I've asked him. It's not actually effective and if I catch myself doing it I try to stop.

There are higher degrees of shouting which I really don't like and luckily don't seem to have the instinct to do, but I have caught myself occasionally saying things like "Why do you always make us late??" which I know, really, is unfair.

Thanks Bertie I'll take a look.

WhosPickle - it really depends on your DS. My DS understands quite a lot of language so I'm able to tell him to stop doing something and generally he will stop. If he doesn't, I'll step in and stop him myself and then I'll usually distract him with something else or comfort him if he's upset about being stopped. But I don't punish, shout or smack. Discipline at that age really does mean "teaching" and nothing else - ie I'm around him in any situation that he isn't able to deal with (such as a big toddler group, out at the park etc) and I guide him at any point he has trouble. If he's managing fine then I step back until he wants me to play or needs help.

Threeleft, if his behaviour in the park is a real problem then you might have to stop going there until he can handle it better. What sort of things cause an issue when you're there?

The only reading I can recommend really is the "The Blank Slate" by Steven Pinker. He's a developmental psychologist who writes about human nature and in it there is a lot about the development of children. It's quite technical and hard going but it gives a lot of insight into how children's minds develop.

Really though, reading isn't necessary. The main thing is that you realise that you are your child's teacher, not their controller. Your aim is that they can handle the world around them in the most sensible, safe way. Sometimes they'll do things that piss you off. There will be a reason why they're doing those things, and the reason won't be to piss you off. They love you, you're their entire world, and mostly all they want is your love and attention. Yes they can be bloody infuriating but that's not their fault, they haven't learned yet how to manage things and they make tonnes and tonnes of mistakes. That's what learning is about. If you convey the impression that you're in control, that you have everything sorted and you have high expectations that you expect to be met, then your child will trust you. They'll still challenge you, but they'll know that you won't lose your rag because you are mum and you know what you're doing.

IMO the best gift you can give your children is trust. Be the one they can trust to sort things out, and to never hurt them or humiliate them.

That's what I've been doing so that's good. If I ask him to stop something he finds it hilarious so I just remove and distract and say no. I am a bit partial to some reading matter but generally do t get past the first chapter I have to say.

WhosPickle When dd was your DS's age I found trying to hardly ever say no helped a lot. Instead of saying no I'd tell her 'do this' or 'when we play with x we do it gently' or 'it only works when we...' or something instead. Then when I really needed to use no to get her stop something quickly it made far more of an impact.

Tbh, it still works better but it is hard on a stressful day not to go for the easy option

I say it and shake my head for things like biting wires and the like! No it doesn't work, he laughs and shakes his head back at me.

I`ll try a bit more explanation. He is a little live wire and into everything, but doesn't know many words etc yet so still a little early to reason with.

Yeah, WhosPickle, it sounds like he's just not at the stage yet of really understanding being told not to do things. Remember to always pair everything you say with its meaning - so say "No" and at the same time stop him from doing what he's doing. If you say pick it up, model picking it up at the same time while saying the phrase a couple of times. Over time he'll start to associate the words with doing the things, a while before he actually understands the words themselves. If you don't pair the word and the action then all your DS hears is random meaningless sounds.

I taught DS "wait" by playing a game. I got him to walk with me, sort of copying me, then I would say "wait" and stop. He didn't stop at first so I stopped him then made a huge fuss when he stopped. Over time he learned the word and now he tells me to wait in a very no-nonsense tone of voice. If I open the door he walks out then says "Wait!" and stops of his own accord because that's what I always say when we go out the door. Consistency is the key. The link between the words and what you want has to be very very clear.

Cailin you are a saint! I'm full of admiration. I have worked hard and succeeded in being a calmer parent as I don't think shouting is a great parenting strategy. Your techniques sound wonderful.

However, I don't know how you are planning to deal with tricky behaviour when dc are old but I'm wondering will your children be ready to face a harsher world than the one they inhabit now with you, where everything is explained and they don't encounter criticism or anger?

Where people do shout. Where people do argue heatedly - and then, crucially, resolve their issues and still love each other? So your children learn everyone is flawed and have a range of emotions - sometimes people are irrational and flare up.

Also, I suppose I'm saying will they need to toughen up in playground situations where kids shout and scream and fall out..?

You could do redirection in that situation, offer a slice of apple or a breadstick or a teething ring or something and say "Bite this, yum yum! Don't bite that. Nasty, yuck, thpuh!" with lots of facial expression, hopefully to make him laugh.

(There's a great saying in Wales, ach-y-fi, which is sort of pronounced yeuch-uv-y, so the sound is so evocative, it's brilliant for a combination of "yuck, that's disgusting" and "don't touch/put that down".)

dc are older

I don't know about Cailin, Proud, but I follow broadly speaking a similar kind of approach and while I try as much as possible to do things in this kind of way, I do lose my rag sometimes, I'm only human.

I always apologise to DS later if I feel I've been unfair on him or taken anger out on him etc and he usually says "That's alright mummy. Sorry I was jumping on the sofa." or whatever it was and we kiss and make up and agree not to jump on the sofa/shout or whatever (until the next time )

He REALLY doesn't like it when children argue near him, but I don't think that's a massive problem really. I don't think that introducing shouting on purpose would toughen him up, it just seems a strange thing to do.

I always apologise if I lose my rag too. However badly behaved they've been I I own my response and take full responsiblity for that. I can't bear 'you pushed me to that' as others have said on this spread.

Obviously I'm not advocating shouting at kids in order to toughen them up, that would indeed be weird.

But I think it's okay to let your kids see the whole of you - that includes anger, lack of control, irrational or uncontrolled behaviour on occassion.

Humans feel anger for a reason, just like we feel guilt or sadness. I think it could be potentially difficult for dc if they live in a bubble where they are not exposed to this very normal emotion.

But I still take my hat off and agree broadly with your and Cailin's brilliant strategies, don't get me wrong.

Dreadfully worded post - sorry - and only 2 glasses as well! Am off to bed!

Hi Bertie, I am Welsh so that does get used!

Its a good word you can be very dramatic with it in a nice way.

I aint no saint :) DS drives me up the bloody wall at times and I have become very worked up but if that happens I walk away. When he's older I'll tell him I'm very annoyed and I need to calm down - I used to do that at school and ask the children to put their head on the desks (the love that for some reason!) while I took a moment to get my head together. Sometimes just seeing how annoyed I was and having a few moments of silence was enough to prompt them to apologise or rectify whatever had gone wrong.

I know what you mean about encountering criticism and anger. I would always have a policy of telling a child, when they can understand, that their behaviour is wrong, and showing anger, usually by just saying I'm angry as I've described above. Dealing with others shouting and screaming is just another thing I'll have to teach him, same as everything else. I don't have to shout and scream for him to experience it and learn from it - I can teach him how to deal with it just by talking to him about it.