To insist my dd studies in addition to her schoolwork?

[ChopstheScarletduck]

DD clearly thinks I am. We've had this discussion a few times now. Apparently NOBODY else has to do extra work.

She is a solidly average student in general, but lacks motivation in subjects she does find harder, and has terrible organisational skills.

All the kids have been told they must do half an hours reading a day, from school age. The older two do maths and english in addition to that, so around an hour a day (age 11, 9)

I've now told dd I want her to do 90mins a day, which includes homework, reading and study. In the past I've even told her she can do music practice as part of that, but that didn't last very long. I help her with the aspects of her study she is struggling with, though on the whole it is independent study.

She seems to think she should be able rush her homework then hang out with her friends or sit in front of a screen all day, like everybody else does. I want her to work to achieve the grades I know she is capable of if she tries. Her homework is 100% better when she knows she can't get away with just rushing it, as she will just have to find something else to study in any case!

I know academic achievement isn't everything, and she has plenty of time left to do what she wants, and she does various clubs at school, Girls Brigade, a couple of youth clubs.

Please tell me I'm not really the only one who wants their dc to do a little work as well as play!

This is ridiculous, are you being unreasonable and precious? Of course you are. I think it is really sad to force any human being to spend so much of their precious life being unhappy. I earn over 100k and I don't even have my maths O level. I have managed to get to masters level by hard work and motivation finding a career I wanted. My lefty high pressure parents invested thousands in my education, blackmail, bribery etc and all I have to show for that is A Level Drama and a few tatoos. You are wasting life worrying and wasting your child's life projecting the anxiety you have onto her.

wordfactory but the child herself has voiced the opinion that she is being treated differently than her friends. She is at an age where feeling 'different' to her peers matters to her. Children do need time to grow and develop as individuals by social interaction and by that I don't just mean in after-school activities. In the OPs original post it didn't seem like she did get to just be 'herself' in her time with her friends. This is an integral part of how she will develop as an individual and gain self-esteem, alongside learning. Hence, what I previously said about there being a balance.

In the OPs original post it didn't seem like she did get to just be 'herself' in her time with her friends.

Why is it you think that? She does do plenty of 'normal' things. She goes swimming, starbucks, cinema.

theodorakis, well done, but I'm sure it isn't the norm. How did you learn your motivation? It's the motivation that I want dd to gain rather than the grades so much.

If you must do it, ( and I think it's too much), can't it just be for a couple of days a week, not every day?

I know we all want out children to succeed, but the way you're going about it is way over the top.

I hope you step back when she goes to secondary school.

I suspect you just don't really know what to do with her in the evenings. I wouldn't like my dd to spend all evening in front of the computer either. I'd do after school clubs OR develop a hobby or something she can do at home.

I don't like the idea of all reading classified as "studies" time. That's so wrong, I don't know where to start. Never mind the rest, 30-60 minutes/day, etc.

I have read most of this thread. I am at the attitude to just let the child be.

I was a bit of an unwanted child, the last in line and unplanned. So while my parents were strict with my elder siblings, they were very laid back with me. Not really interested in what I did. I remember in 12th grade I got 80% in math, and they were happy. And inwardly I was sad, is that all they think I am capable of?

In any case, I graduated from MIT with a PhD. But I think I could have achieved so much more if my parents had pushed me harder and been more interested in my education and career.

OP, I think you are doing something that will benefit your dd in the long run. The only thing I would add, is make her do more around the house. 10 minutes is not enough. Also teach her a love for gardening or some other activity that is slow, requires method and concentration. It really disciplines the mind and gives an inner peace that will last her through her life.

Yabvu! She's already doing a full school day plus homework, she is a child! All your children sound pretty pressured and controlled.

ChopstheScarletduck as in your original post where you suggested your daughter thought she should be able to 'hang out with her friends' after school which would suggest she thinks the balance between what you want her to do and the time she spends with her friends is out.

There have been many people disagreeing with your OP but you don't seem to have come on here to listen to other views. You obviously care about your childrens future and have their best interests at heart, so just do what you are doing (as you will do anyway seeing your responses to the many who disagree with you). Your daughter may benefit or she may resent you. Only time will tell.

"But I think I could have achieved so much more if my parents had pushed me harder and been more interested in my education and career." or maybe not that's sad that you interpret your parents contentment with your achievement as being disinterest, maybe they learnt from pushing your older siblings that it didn't lead to a contented life for anyone (though not knowing the dynamics of your family impossible to say)

Sad also that you think your accomplishments (graduate degree and PHd) are not enough and that you should have achieved more.

Anyway - I can only keep saying (as a devoted lifelong reader) that OP appears to want her child to love reading - but making her read daily isn't going to do it.

But I think I could have achieved so much more if my parents had pushed me harder and been more interested in my education and career.

You probably could have if you stopped blaming your parents and took responsibility for your own destiny.

My parents don't even know I have a degree and think I do something in computers.
I couldn't care less my achievements are no reflection on them.

Kew, I think there are two important lifeskills here, that OP is helping instill.

One is that it is important to engage and do things well, even if you don't really want to do them. So many times in life we have to do things we don't want to do or find boring, and it is good to instill an attitude that one just has to do it, and do it well. It does lead to a healthier mindset later on in life.

The second is that sustained love for learning comes from knowing about the subject and being able to grasp it's intricacies. Maths is beautiful, if you can understand the concepts. Learning is not about amusing your child with their latest fascination, but giving them the solid stepping stones to understand the beauty in the subject under study.

Higher education in university is just that, it is a training of the mind, to enjoy learning any new thing. It is not about career and money, although that too come about as a side benefit.

In my case, my siblings have done exceedingly well in their fields. I just think I would have benefited from higher expectations from parents. Luckily I was self-motivated and to be fair, my parents never grudged me the expense of extra tuition when I asked for it.

Mosman, lol, I graduated with a PhD from one of the top universities in the world and landed into a six figure job right after (gave it up after I got married and moved to another continent with dh, that is another story).

I don't know how to say it, I think when parents expect from their child (in a loving, attentive way), it makes the child realize that they are important and capable of achieving more than they think they can...

Just trying to say that their is nothing wrong with a parent expecting their child to excel, and I think OP is doing the right thing.

There's no love of learning if she is doing it bacause she has to read and do extra studies every day for 90 minutes, she isn't choosing to.

I think a good education is important, my eldest 2 are at selectives schools and we follow a routine of homework, jobs in the house they are responsible for, dinner and then they can do as they please.

I really think it is so excessive to make her do 90 per day, on top of school and homework, is there any part of her entire day that isn't structured into worthy activities?
Even during the holidays you are finding educational things for her to do.

I really disagree with hot housing children like this, if she does not achieve a* in her GCSE she will feel as if she has let you down and this type of environment for a non academic child causes massive anxiety in the lead up to exams.

I understand you want the best for her, I disagree in the extreme method you are using to make her learn.

Sometimes your attitude to a subject can change if you put in enough work to get to the point where you master the basic concepts and feel more confident as a result. Learning more becomes less of a chore after that.

YABU and I think forcing her to do work that is making her unhappy will just completely switch her off doing anything at the same time as making her feel nothing she ever does is good enough for you/that she is loved less than her siblings (because treated more harshly in her mind). Motivation is only possible when you are happy and you don't get a self motivated adult from a child that has been nothing but pushed and led and never had any control over their lives. It sounds unrelated but this kind of thing is a trigger for low self-esteem, eating disorders and self-harm.

MMmmmm.

well it depends on a lot of factors but "none of my friends have to do extra" is not a valid reason for saying a DC should not be doing what they can to achieve their full potential at school.

IME very few 11-16yo (especially boys, I have 4 and they do seem to mature at a different rate to most girls) will actually put in the effort required to do THEIR best at school (note, I am saying their best, not "to get top marks").

It depends on the school - the ones we have had our DS's in, you could not count on them to even cover the basics of the curriculum for each subject (due to staff absences, indiscipline and sometimes, poor teaching). My older 2 DS's succeeded at school (in terms of good exam results and gaining good university places to studdy subjects they were passionate about), inspite of school, not because of it.

They required a mix of private tutoring and extra work at home, to cover the gaps in school teaching and in the case of out dyslexic DS, the private tutoring was to ensure he was taught in a way that helped him to learn effectively.

They always had the weekends free - our rule, weekends are for fun, not work, and also never worked beyond 9pm on any school night (ususally 7pm).

I think we would have been guilty of parental neglect if we had not stepped in to enable this (with money, time, books....), as we knew there were problems with the schools but couldn't change (very rural) without going private - which is what most of our (work) partners have chosen to do with their kids.

Is this Tiger Mom???? I don't think so, any real asian tiger mon would scorn the idea and their cultural norms include vast amounts of rote learning of all academic subjects and music practice, and very little or no social freedom for kids even of university age. 90mins a night including 30mins reading is not tiger mom.

Just read the whole thread with interest as we are the total opposite to the OP, I can't abide homework, and let my DS manage their own time, homework, how much they want to put in is up to them, they choose to hand in late, to get it done to an amazing standard etc - it's their choice. And they get rewards from school for doing well if they put effort in very much like the real world!!

Neither are top sets, but frankly I really couldn't give a toss either way as they are happy friendly polite and they love life and live life to the full.

You comment further up

"but I'm teaching them how to study, and how to learn independently"

I would say you are doing the complete opposite - they can only learn how much is needed by managing their own time, your clearly telling DS what to do and when to do it and for how long - when you clever DS does go to uni - you really think she is going to stick to your rules and think Ahhhh I know mum says I need to do XXX hours.. like hell she's going to be lost and not have a clue what can be achieved in her own time, as she has never experienced self regulation??

I personally would lay off, give her a month on her own, she may surprise you?

Mosman, lol, I graduated with a PhD from one of the top universities in the world and landed into a six figure job right after (gave it up after I got married and moved to another continent with dh, that is another story).

So exactly what more do you think you could have achieved then, given the parental support you feel you lacked ?

Just makes me laugh that people still blame their parents into adulthood. My father told me I was a fucking idiot and if I wanted to do all that student bollocks stuff with books I could do from somewhere other than his house.
So I did, at 18 and then any failings are mine but so are my successes and that is what I've installed into my children.

For an eleven year old, I don't think you are being at all unreasonable. Our eleven year old also does at least two hours of extra work each day. One hour is spent on homework, 1/2 an hour on language lessons and then half an hour doing practise tests. This is outside of her dance practise which is an extra 1.5 hours. We are in Australia so the system is different but to get into the class she is in now, she had to write a special exam in Year 4. We didn't really push her too hard at all for that one but it was made clear
her that if she was offered a place, her workload would increase. She wanted to go to this school. She did get a place and since then has had to prepare for various Math Olympiads and a selective school examination which is highly competitive.

That said, we do try to work the language lessons into the car trip. She might choose to get up early to do her practise tests. Most importantly, we don't have a television and computers are strictly for research purposes during the week.

Wow. They don't HAVE to do the maths olympiad you know!

Cabbage I love you.

If you honestly think 2 hours of extra work on top of a full school day and no actual leisure time, no fun, not even a car journey free of learning is going to make your child into a well rounded, sociable, independent learner then I actually feel sad for your DCs.

At 11 years old, the amount of pressure you are putting on your child to be the very best, to be the only one who came speak x language, to be top of the class in every lesson is immense.

These are the children who are pushed so intensely they cannot cope with academic failure as they feel they have let everyone down.
These are the children that internalize all the anxiety they have, as they can't talk about it and it comes out in very dangerous ways.
These are the children who are set apart from their peers at school as they have no time for fun.

These are the children that I see all the time at the selectives schools, who have been so heavily tutored and pushed to get into a selective school, the pressure becomes too much once they are there and trying to keep up this "have to be the best" mentality.

It doesn't make them independent learned, because they don't have the oppourtunity to be independent if they can't even sit in a car without being drilled in a foreign language.

interregmum - of course they don't have to do maths olympiads and similar, but the fact is, some (not just the "top" ones) Universities/course requirements will be looking for/asking for evidence of extra curricular learning and commitment to the subject you want to study at university.

So, from age about 15, it's not a bad idea for a DC to participate in maths olympiad, science programs such as Nuffield awards, volunteering IN SOMETHING THAT INTERESTS THE CHILD, as this may benefit their school learning as well as help with university application.

When I mentioned before about my Dad and how he encouraged my learning, there was one very important thing I missed out and I think it's crucial. He always said that I didn't have to achieve anything for him to be proud of me. He always said that his pride would come from (and this is an old-fashioned word/concept) whether I was 'an honourable person'. He said that if I worked behind the counter in Tesco and did my work honourably and with dignity then he'd be proud enough to burst - and I know that he really meant it. So while he was showing me scientific journals and pressing books into my hand he was doing it out of genuine wish to share his enthusiasms not out of any desire to 'improve' me. I think this makes a HUGE difference.

WRT what others said about parents not being ?involved? and how they feel about that? I have to admit I don?t think my Dad knows what degree I did. He didn?t take any notice of that ?external achievements? stuff. When I was crying once about failing an exam he just shrugged and said the only people who never fail are people who?ve never tried to do anything hard, and that if you?re failing you?re in the right place. ?Fail again, fail better?, the old Beckett adage! I tell my DS that all the time...

Did I mention that I really love my Dad ?