To insist my dd studies in addition to her schoolwork?

[ChopstheScarletduck]

DD clearly thinks I am. We've had this discussion a few times now. Apparently NOBODY else has to do extra work.

She is a solidly average student in general, but lacks motivation in subjects she does find harder, and has terrible organisational skills.

All the kids have been told they must do half an hours reading a day, from school age. The older two do maths and english in addition to that, so around an hour a day (age 11, 9)

I've now told dd I want her to do 90mins a day, which includes homework, reading and study. In the past I've even told her she can do music practice as part of that, but that didn't last very long. I help her with the aspects of her study she is struggling with, though on the whole it is independent study.

She seems to think she should be able rush her homework then hang out with her friends or sit in front of a screen all day, like everybody else does. I want her to work to achieve the grades I know she is capable of if she tries. Her homework is 100% better when she knows she can't get away with just rushing it, as she will just have to find something else to study in any case!

I know academic achievement isn't everything, and she has plenty of time left to do what she wants, and she does various clubs at school, Girls Brigade, a couple of youth clubs.

Please tell me I'm not really the only one who wants their dc to do a little work as well as play!

Yup, give up Friday rock band for extra school
work

Hmm. He would hand himself in to the nearest Social Services office immediately!

OP, I don't think your dd will come to any harm from being made to do some extra studying in the afternoons.

But I do think if you make her see everyday home reading as "studying" she will be enormously disadvantaged in comparison to children from families where reading is seen as a pleasure and a treat. Imho the way to get children to love reading is not to sit them down at a table for 90 minutes but to show them that you love reading, that your partner loves reading, that ordinary grown-up people can't get on without it.

And could posters please note that it was the OP who introduced the distinction between "work" and "play". Which I agree is a sad one.

I have already explained that even with activities she is home by 4.15. Yesterday she sat out in the garden chatting with us for a couple of hours, just chilling.

I'm not trying to force her to stretch beyond what she is able to do, I'm trying to get her to do what she is perfectly capable of. Yourfanjoisyourhandbag - you say your ds works hard and tries his best. Dd wasn't doing that!

She isn't so deeply unhappy as people are thinking - it's not a battle with her every day. She was telling me yesterday how good her current book is, and enthusing about getting hold of the rest of the series. The boys were having a bit of a break from reading yesterday, and we were making comics and newspaper articles related to what they had been reading. It's just sometimes they do all moan.

So did she not do her extra 90 minutes yesterday, then?

The time still doesn't really add up- home at 4.15, 90 minutes extra work, 3 hours free time, dinner, bath- she must go to bed very late!

she is only home at 4.15 once or twice a week. Most of the clubs are during the school day.

3.15 - she will do a couple of little jobs, do some study, be done by teatime, 15 mins to eat. 2 hours left. She showers in the mornings.

In any case, it is up to them when they do it. I suggested straight after school to her so it's done out of the way. Some days, it's half hour in the morning, half hour after school, half hour reading in bed. Which leaves her free from 4-8 - four hours.

I think that you are doing too much altogether. Why are they making comics and newspaper articles about their books? Did it come from you? I think it is great if it came from them but if so why did you need to get involved- other than find the materials? The Bronte's father didn't hover!
Benign neglect and a bit of boredom fires the imagination - leave them to sort it. Too much involvement is counter productive and soon you will get 'we don't want anything educational'. I was a prolific reader, but would have avoided finishing a book if I wasn't just free to start the next one.

I had a mum like you OP, I hated her pushiness, her desire to round me into a person I wasn't. Now she lives the other end of the country and I see her twice a year. I don't blame her but our relationship suffered.

My dad lives in the same county as me and I see him almost daily. He never wanted to push me into extra homework or take me to places of historical intrest unless I wanted to go.

I have a degrees etc from very good universities, have trained for a brilliant job which I enjoyed. But most of all I'm happy now being me. I don't earn much and have no wish to, family is more important than time spent making money

I think if you fail to listen to your children as you fail to listen to so many voices on this thread you and your children will regret it for decades to come

I didn't get mine doing work, but I pushed 'educational' visits- they refused point blank after a while. Leave them to develop their own interests.

No, they don't all complain op.
My older DCs don't complain about schoolwork for one simple reason, they have learnt the hard way how to manage their own time.
My ds1 is 13. When he started secondary school, he was of the opinion he could leave all his homework until approx 30 seconds before it was due in
I let him do that.

I did mention he would end up getting swamped when the homework got more and more.
He disagreed. I said ok.

2 months later, he realises this was not working out for him, he had a week where he missed football practice and literally did nothing but homework.
He has never done that again.
He starts the project on the day it is assigned, hands it in when he is finished(usually early) and starts the next one.

Dd who is 14 does the same.

This means there are sometimes 3-4 days where they have no homework as it is finished early and handed in.

I would never dream of making them do extra work on those days.
They do stuff they like during, which they may not get to do on days where they are working hard.
That is independent learning IMHO.

If I was scheduling when they work and what they did, they would not be able to do it on their own.

Ds2 is another matter entirely, normally found singing, drawing, or making up stories, sometimes during study time!
But he works to the best of his abilities and to be fair is an average student, just not spectacular. He is good at things he likes!

YourFanjoIsNotAHandbag

Do you not think children need down time then?

I think that there's far too much emphasis placed, particularly by Guardianista yummy mummies, on 'having a lovely time' as a child and nowhere near enough emphasis placed on exercising one's brain. Anti-intellectualism seems to have taken a firm root amongst the chattering classes.

^Are you saying that you, as an adult, never take any time to watch half an hour of tv, chat to a friend, use the Internet, have a cup of tea?

Why is it we as parents do not feel we have to have our entire day broken down into worthwhile activities but feel compelled to do this for our children and view any free time playing with friends, watching a tv programme, playing a game as a terrible thing?^

You seem to have leapt - somehow - to the assumption that if a child is being made to do some extra lessons that she's being denied any kind of social life. What rot.

And school does not finish at 3:30 at the latest, like seeker pointed out, children do after school activities. Or should they not be allowed to do football, dance etc as it might impact on their extra learning?

Plenty of time to play and learn and do all those extra things.

If my ds spent 90 minutes on extra work every day, he would have about an hour unscheduled time every day. Except on Tuesdays and Fridays, when he would have none.

Which I think is not right. I still don't quite understand how the op fits it in. Although I do notice that she only schedules 15 minutes for tea. Which sounds to me more like a pit stop than a social occasion.

Flatpackhamster, you didn't answer my question did you?

Do you not have any down time yourself?

The funny thing is, my elder 2 children are excelling academically without being organized into structured extra study set by me.
They work independently, they read for pleasure, they also don't complain about not being able to play with their friend, they do sports clubs, play for teams and even watch tv and play ps3.

The point I'm trying to make is for an 11 year old to have to do school homework, structured reading at home, extra work set by parents at home, music practice means very little free time.

I have 3 children and there is no way on earth they could have kept up with their after school clubs, sports teams, friends and do 90 minutes of extra work and still have free time.

Something would have to give, and parents are so hyper competitive, the things sacrificed are the fun things.

If that makes me one of the "chattering class" I'm glad.
I don't not feel education is the only important thing in an 11 yo life, I think they should learn independently, be able to do things they enjoy and sometimes do nothing but play in the garden.

That doesn't make it less likely my children will reach their full potential.

Et

E

Also they have never had to do half hour extra work set by me before school in order to have free time in the evening, yet they are still at selective schools.

Must just be luck....

Could she get a job too?

I like the way Cory put it:

"...if you make her see everyday home reading as "studying" she will be enormously disadvantaged in comparison to children from families where reading is seen as a pleasure and a treat."

I think even MAKING your 7-yr-old read for 30min a day is too much. I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I think it's counterproductive to turn reading into such a chore. We are a very bookish family, but my 7-yr-old reads aloud to us for only maybe 10min a day, which is long enough for me to see how he's getting on. Some days he is busy doing other things and we don't get round to it. However, he is addicted to the Beano, and has started to pull books (often "easy" picture books) off the shelves and lie around reading them on his own for pleasure. (I am secretly THRILLED that he does this, but I don't make a fuss about it.) Also, I read to him for 30min or so before he falls asleep. He views this as a treat. I view the reading to him as equally or more important at this age than the reading he does on his own - it increases his vocab and makes him love books.

Your daughter is probably doing brilliantly now and you can afford to ease up on her a bit.

90 mins is a very long time and if she's not very motivated or focussed then all it is teaching her is how to spend 3 times longer than is necessary achieving something.

I would try a different tack - 10 mins of totally focussed study instead and also make sure she has plenty of exercise too. She can achieve loads in 10 mins a day if she's focussed and she won't resent it so much either.

Better to do a little properly than lots badly.

I think you seem to be finding a pretty good balance. It may become tougher as she enters her teen years, but you can cross that bridge when you get to it. Maybe by then she'll have a clearer view of what she'd like to do with her life and that may give her some direction/motivation?
It may make academics even less important to her, though, if she decides she wants to follow her current interest and become a pasta chef.

From what I've read, the only problem I can see is that someone seems to have encouraged your boys to want to be bankers.
I am married to one and we would both see it as a major failure on our part if either of our children grew up to be bankers or lawyers.
I'd much rather they used the financial privileges they are growing up with to broaden their perspectives and come up with something more meaningful and fulfilling to do with their lives.

I wish someone had pushed me to achieve my best BTW.

I suspect though, Bubbaluv that "meaningful and fulfilling" isn't really what the OP and her family are going for .

Her clubs are in the school day? Really? I don't understand that. There's something about your timetable which doesnt make sense and I really do think it is the amount of time that she drifts about that is bugging you.

YourFanjoIsNotAHandbag

^Flatpackhamster, you didn't answer my question did you?

Do you not have any down time yourself?^

I didn't see that it was relevant because this isn't about parents, it's about children, and in particular, OP's child who is failing to achieve her potential academically. Since it's so important, though, I don't get much - I'm self-employed and I do all the cooking, cleaning and gardening.

^The funny thing is, my elder 2 children are excelling academically without being organized into structured extra study set by me.
They work independently, they read for pleasure, they also don't complain about not being able to play with their friend, they do sports clubs, play for teams and even watch tv and play ps3.

The point I'm trying to make is for an 11 year old to have to do school homework, structured reading at home, extra work set by parents at home, music practice means very little free time.^

I know what point you're making. OP's point is that her child isn't excelling academically. I just think your point is nonsense because you're not in OP's position and it doesn't sound as though you have been.

^I have 3 children and there is no way on earth they could have kept up with their after school clubs, sports teams, friends and do 90 minutes of extra work and still have free time.

Something would have to give, and parents are so hyper competitive, the things sacrificed are the fun things.^

So let's have a hypothetical here. Your two genius children are at the same school. One is at the top of the class, the other at the bottom. Will you sit there, singing Kumbaya and telling the low achiever that it's "OK, darling, I won't put pressure on you in case I damage your self-esteem and reduce your chance to socialise"?

^If that makes me one of the "chattering class" I'm glad.
I don't not feel education is the only important thing in an 11 yo life, I think they should learn independently, be able to do things they enjoy and sometimes do nothing but play in the garden.

That doesn't make it less likely my children will reach their full potential.^

Your children don't need help. And all of the chattering yummy mummies in this thread don't seem to have underachieving kids either, which is why they can devote their posts to remonstrating with OP for cruelly depriving her DD of the chance to enhance her personality through play and interpretive dance.

interregmum, our high school runs most of it's clubs during the school day - there is a very long lunch break. I don't think that's unusual, easier to get staff/6th years to volunteer if they are "lunch clubs".

Not sure why some ppl are being so hard on the OP, she sounds like a lovely, caring and involved mum.

OP I broadly agree with you that putting in a bit of extra work will benefit your child. However, I think that you are possibly going about it in a slightly unmotivating way. Instead of saying "read for 30 mins", you could instead say "read x amount of pages or chapters". That way, if she hurries, she can get it done in less than 30 mins - ie motivating her to go quicker. Then praise her quickness or tell her you are really pleased with her and allow a treat or some sort. I would also have a chat with her about exactly why you are doing a little extra.

Plenty of children do excel with no extra work. Great! But if your child doesn't, then it is logical to do something about it.