To insist my dd studies in addition to her schoolwork?

[ChopstheScarletduck]

DD clearly thinks I am. We've had this discussion a few times now. Apparently NOBODY else has to do extra work.

She is a solidly average student in general, but lacks motivation in subjects she does find harder, and has terrible organisational skills.

All the kids have been told they must do half an hours reading a day, from school age. The older two do maths and english in addition to that, so around an hour a day (age 11, 9)

I've now told dd I want her to do 90mins a day, which includes homework, reading and study. In the past I've even told her she can do music practice as part of that, but that didn't last very long. I help her with the aspects of her study she is struggling with, though on the whole it is independent study.

She seems to think she should be able rush her homework then hang out with her friends or sit in front of a screen all day, like everybody else does. I want her to work to achieve the grades I know she is capable of if she tries. Her homework is 100% better when she knows she can't get away with just rushing it, as she will just have to find something else to study in any case!

I know academic achievement isn't everything, and she has plenty of time left to do what she wants, and she does various clubs at school, Girls Brigade, a couple of youth clubs.

Please tell me I'm not really the only one who wants their dc to do a little work as well as play!

I think that the feeling of not being as good as someone else/slightly insecure about yourself is actually a good, motivating thing

I'm afraid I disagree. Not least because I don't believe that mind games have any place in the raising of children. This sort of trick might motivate some children but there's an equal chance of it backfiring and you leaving your child with serious self-esteem issues.

I don't believe in ludicrous praise either but there has to be a middle course where you encourage your children to do their best and ultimately, realise their dreams without resorting to making them feel insecure.

Oh and ds1 really wants to work in wheelchair repairs or design. I'm really not pushing them to get 6 figure salaries, I just want them to have the chance to do the things that it is that they WANT to do when they grow up.

Chops you sound a little like you don't want your DD to repeat things in your own life that you now see as being a mistake?

it also depends how that message is transmitted by the parents and received by the child

Completely agree. Getting this wrong could be a disaster for the child, and I think what you said about 'anxious underachievers' is absolutely true.

I just think that shying away from pushing/encouraging DCs in the fear that we will go too far the other way is a bit of a parenting cop-out.

Slightly OT I know, but I see it all the time in obese DCs whose parents refuse to tackle the issue for fear of their DCs developing eating disorders.

I think the OP sounds like she has struck a good balance. I hope you (OP) manage to get DD on board!

One sure way of putting them off academia all together is to make them do extra especially if they don't want to.

ludicrous praise either but there has to be a middle course where you encourage your children to do their best and ultimately, realise their dreams without resorting to making them feel insecure.

Agreed, and I think that ties in with what folk was saying re how the message is transmitted. All DCs and parents are different - the parents of an individual DC would be best placed to know what tack they should take with them.

yes, to a degree. I think I've been bloody lucky considering I threw away my education, leaving uni in the first year. I still don't work now yet, because I have four kids to look after. Like dd, I always wanted to travel, and I've been so lucky that I have been to some nice places.

I'd hate for her to end up how I was at 19, pregnant, married to a violent man, working as a waitress, living off cheap ready meals, living in a house with no heating and rising damp. So, no, I don't want her to make my mistakes. But then doesn't every parent want better for their child?

Above all I want her to be happy, and if she can't do the things she wants to do, that isn't likely to happen. And she isn't unhappy now, neither, just feels a bit put upon in comparison to her peers!

Interesting discussion. I also feel that if your DD is surrounded by high achieving parents and siblings, rather than push her to want to compete, she may just think 'well I'll never be as good as them, so why try'. I know that my mum had some very high standards and all it did was make me rebel!

Firstly, Chops at the risk of sounding preachy, forgive yourself. You didn't fail. You got out of the violent relationship, you worked to feed yourself and your child, you made a better life for yourself and your child. Well done. Seriously - plenty of people don't achieve that much in their lifetime. Plenty of wealthy 'successful' people stay in violent relationships and put their kids through Hell as a consequence.

Your DD won't make those mistakes - she's a whole different person, she's going to make a whole different bunch of mistakes. I get the impression (and could be totally wrong) that you see more of yourself in your DD than in your DSs. And that you're harder on her as a consequence, because you're hard on yourself. You did a good thing by talking positively to her and agreeing with her the study time - how about setting aside a time to discuss it with her, maybe on 'neutral ground' at Starbucks or something, and ask what she wants to achieve, and how much she wants to study to achieve it. Ask what her goals are, and ask if she's thought of what sort of careers could meet those goals. And don't get too hung up on 'Well you'll have to earn a lot of money if you want to do that'. As I said earlier I'm on a moderate salary but do get to achieve my goals of travelling and having fun at work. But if she wants to travel a lot for her work, getting to fluency in a couple of languages is a practical idea. And if she loves live music, thinking about international careers in the music industry and what sort of entry requirements they have... Something that inspires her - then ask her what she's prepared to do to get there. It sounds like you did a great job of getting it to come from her in the first place, so it's only a 'revisit'.

Pushing high academic achievement can lead to perfectionism in children when they grow up. so my cbt therapist told me.

I think you should check she does her school homework, but nothing above that. What is the point of anything extra except to turn her off? Children get tired too.

And my perfectionism had just made me very ill. Hence cbt

I agree with cunningstunt. I feel sorry for kids these days. Unless they are academically driven from within all this pushing and prodding after school causes disharmony at home, and for what? So they get a few more GCSEs or a few more As. It really is too early for them to join the rat race imo.

How about we all do 90 minutes study after work and see how we like it (I know some people are working and studying so don't all shout at once)

I am so glad that my life experiences with my children have taught me to stay well away from all this expectation hogwash.

My children will be what they will be. As long as they are happy and productive in their own way, to the best of their ability then that's ok with me.

I hear people say "oh yah but Tarquil is going to be a human rights lawyer/vet/whatever" and it makes me feel quite ill.

"we all do 90 minutes study after work and see how we like it (I know some people are working and studying so don't all shout at once)" - I'm shouting at once, just like you told me not to But seriously, I think this is part of the problem - the idea that studying for 90 minutes after work would be some awful penance. And then we tell our kids either 'study or else', or 'Poor thing having to study'. Whereas (nerd alert) studying is the most wonderful past-time, and should be something we do all our lives at every opportunity because it's FUN, dammit! My favourite quote of all time:-

The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something. That's the only thing that never fails. You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, you may lie awake at night listening to the disorder of your veins, you may miss your only love, you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, or know your honour trampled in the sewers of baser minds. There is only one thing for it then ? to learn. Learn why the world wags and what wags it. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting. Learning is the only thing for you. Look what a lot of things there are to learn.?
― T.H. White, The Once and Future King

Becstar the point is that for most adults it's voluntary

Yabu. From the title I thought this was lung to be about a teenager doing her GCSEs, not an 11 year old.. As long as she does her homework then leave her alone. I loved reading as a child but I did it because I enjoyed it, not because my parents were pushing me to do it. If I'd had someone telling me I must doit, it would have seemed like a chore, not a pleasure.

Why do you think an eleven year old needs to do extra " study" on top of homework

Going to be, not lung to be.

I worked and studied. I had three jobs around my a levels to pay for uni.

I'm not asking for perfectionism. I'm not standing behind her with a whip. I've worked hard with exploring things with her, we learned a lot of things together. I'm not screaming at her to get As, I'm telling her she can do this, and showing her how, which really boosts her confidence.

I will def bear in mind about the sats dip, It makes a lot of sense.

We're actually at the park now, she is playing witha friend from school. She came home and did half an hour, did half an hour this morning and will do half an hour later. She doesn't have to do it all at any set time, it's just that sometimes it can seem like a lot and if she does do it all straightaway it gets it out of the way. She is home before 3.30.

Thank you for that post becstarksy, that was lovely

Glitterknickaz, dd wasnt working to the best of he ability, that was the problem, which is why the work had to be increased.

That is a lovely inspirational quote. After all, why does learning have to be viewed as 'work' all the time?

Mirry2 I think it can be sold to kids as voluntary too, if their parents do it as a default activity.

Now you've got me thinking about it, I have to enthuse for a minute about my Dad. He never pushed me to study, he was just so passionate about it himself that I got carried along with his enthusiasm. He praised me for progress, improvement and commitment, not innate ability. He had no scheme for how many hours I spent studying, but he personally studied all the time, viewed study time as the most wonderful thing in the world, and was always passing me books with 'you HAVE to read this, it's just wonderful' or cutting out articles from scientific periodicals and giving to me with 'how incredible is this?' I understood about 30% of the stuff he gave me - I'm not as clever as my Dad! And some of it was in Latin or Greek, which didn't help It was quite touching that he kept giving me stuff in Greek despite my total lack of aptitude for learning it... He didn't put any pressure on me, he just translated it if I asked with 'oh sorry, I forgot darling, it says....'. I learned a lot from my Dad's clippings and books and I found that was the stuff that was useful at Uni and Masters level - the depth and breadth he'd given to my education. He wasn't pushy, but I would never have got anywhere without the push he gave me. Must give him a call and thank him, now I think of it...

That is lovely

Chops I urge you to read the book "Mindset" by Carol Dweck, and use it when talking to your DD about work. Nerves and insecurity about academic achievement can be a motivating factor or it can turn you off completely. If you don't want your DD to judge her self-worth based on her achievement and being a 'good' girl, please read the book and think about how you praise her (eg is it for effort or achievement?).

I'm not getting paid to suggest it, btw- just that I was a very driven student and basically thought if I didn't do well all the time I wasn't worth anything. Come the inevitable small failure - a B instead of an A at a critical time - I seriously thought it was the end of the world and I was a worthless faker who was no good to anyone and not 'really' good/clever/worthy, I had just been 'lucky' all the previous years. So, erm, it's a really important issue and the book is fascinating and extremely well researched. Please read it!

I wonder how long you plan on keeping this up?
I have a yr8&9 DCs and now they are getting in excess of 1-2 hours homework per night, every night.
Would you still be doing an extra 90 mins per night then as well?