To insist my dd studies in addition to her schoolwork?

[ChopstheScarletduck]

DD clearly thinks I am. We've had this discussion a few times now. Apparently NOBODY else has to do extra work.

She is a solidly average student in general, but lacks motivation in subjects she does find harder, and has terrible organisational skills.

All the kids have been told they must do half an hours reading a day, from school age. The older two do maths and english in addition to that, so around an hour a day (age 11, 9)

I've now told dd I want her to do 90mins a day, which includes homework, reading and study. In the past I've even told her she can do music practice as part of that, but that didn't last very long. I help her with the aspects of her study she is struggling with, though on the whole it is independent study.

She seems to think she should be able rush her homework then hang out with her friends or sit in front of a screen all day, like everybody else does. I want her to work to achieve the grades I know she is capable of if she tries. Her homework is 100% better when she knows she can't get away with just rushing it, as she will just have to find something else to study in any case!

I know academic achievement isn't everything, and she has plenty of time left to do what she wants, and she does various clubs at school, Girls Brigade, a couple of youth clubs.

Please tell me I'm not really the only one who wants their dc to do a little work as well as play!

I recognise that too Currant. That's what I was talking about

Sounds like she already gets plenty of homework for her age. So long as that is completed to a reasonable standard, I'd be cutting the poor kids some slack.

There are many years ahead of applying themselves and studying - let them be kids fgs!

They will rebel. I would.

Comparing, however subconsciously and whether on a family level (the twins) or a global level (Indian and Chinese children -- to that btw but that is another kettle of fish) will be picked up by the DD and may already have.

Coming at this from a place of fear and self loathing will also backfire spectacularly. She will sense your fear and will be terrified.

Apart from the fact that it will backfire if you are rigid and approaching it from a place of panic, you seem to be a bit confused as to whether you are worried about achievement or effort here. You don't seem to mention effort by the twins and seem to be focusing on the DD's sats results. Are you slipping into the trap of focusing on their achievement rather than their effort? I think it is important to appreciate effort above attainment, and especially above potential/cleverness, which is a dreadful burden to saddle a child with. How do you assess effort, and do you show that you appreciate it in and of itself, or does it get swept into the grand scheme of things and only get assessed when exam results come around?

I have nothing against extra studying. I have DD3 working away at maths at home and have done my utmost to provide opportunities for all the DCs to avoid vegetating, as well as modelling nerdiness in my daily life . DD1 got extra art classes and summer camp for chess where she was the only girl. DD2 got a Harry Potter summer camp. DD3 is doing the maths at home that she should be doing in school. DD4 reads a lot and watches documentaries about Egypt and nature she learns far more from a screen than from textbooks and will get to forgo a sport this autumn if she willingly does maths with me this summer. DS spent a lot of his childhood in rebellion against reading and all its works and promises but I eventually found the way to his brain was via all things military history and gore related. So I learned a lot about the Soviet T-34 tank and we spent many a happy hour debating the relative merits of the panzer, Sherman and T-34 plus the ins and outs of various engagements in different theatres of war through the centuries. I just wish I had had the sense to get interested in all his x-box stuff a lot earlier than I did but I was in banging my head against a wall mode back when he was 10 or 11. And who knows, maybe he wouldn't have appreciated his mother being down with the kids like that back at that age.

I think Becstarsky's and Folkgirl's posts and advice are really good here. I do think you need to keep her eye on the ball in areas she seems to be shying away from but remember that not everyone is going to be equally fond of every subject in school and not every teacher is going to get the best out of each child. However, seeing the glass half full and transmitting that to the DD may yield better results than the heavy handed approach and especially better than an approach that focuses on results and the long term instead of taking it day by day. You need to look at things one day at a time -- can you discipline yourself to do that?

x-post there a bit..

"All three of them do get homework on top of that, whereas, dd has 90 minutes to do homework AND independant study. So I don't think it is that much."

I hope you don't help with spelling OP

I want to add, I see no mention of any of the children having to spend time with you doing household chores or having responsibility for any aspect of running the house. If this is not a part of their lives then you are missing out on a major way to encourage a sense of competence and self pride and foster time management and project assessment skills, all of which can translate into other areas.

Reading is homework? A sure fire way of putting her off reading for life. It is a pleasure, or was until primary schools made it such a chore. What will you do in 4 or 5 year's time and rebels against any studying?

I haven't read past page 2 (sorry) but am really surprised at the responses on here.

I grew up in the US and we had at least 90 minutes of homework a night at that age, at least. Generally studying for a test or quiz too. I'm amazed that people think this is undoable.

By the time we were in secondary school (13-17, ish) we were up till 10-11pm working Mon-Thurs (Fri off) and then much of Saturday too. We survived! Far from hating my parents, I am now a geek academic.

But then my parents had grown up in poor circumstances (1950s council estates) and it was absolutely drummed into me that if you wanted to go anywhere in life, you worked. Also they supported us by incentivising learning - we got treats for doing well at school and treats for doing 'maintenance' study in the summer hols.

I think if your child is less academic and it is only making them unhappy, fine, let them off. But honestly it will mean they have fewer chances in the future.

Becstarsky and her Dad have it very right. We have something similar but often the other way round as in it?s the kids hitting me with the latest cutting edge info.

We home educate (despite my lack of an education before everyone picks on my grammar :D) and there?s a huge amount of study going on here seven days a week, but it all happens voluntarily because there's a hunger for change, a fascination of the subjects, and a desire to constantly do stuff with it. Tormenting your mum?s pea sized brain is considered good fun round here too.

Do not train children to learning by force and harshness, but direct them to it by what amuses their minds, so that you may be better able to discover with accuracy the peculiar bent of the genius of each. Plato

Mine read for about an hour because they want to. They do about 15 mins music and then rush through any maths or english on the day they are given it. We sometimes do a bit of extra maths but only half an hour here or there.

mine also have small jobs round the house mid week and bigger jobs at the weekend - i feel this is just as important

RevoltingPeasant, my DCs went to school in the US too and homework was as you recall it, and constant quizzes and tests. High school especially required several hours of work a night. Plus no dropping subjects you didn't like, or much specialisation, until a year at least in university. I think it's easier to take the one day at a time approach in the US because apart from AP exams and the SAT and ACT the end-of-year-pressure-exams are not the big deal they are in the UK. And your grade for the year will depend largely on your performance over the entire year, day in and day out, week in and week out, and not hinge on an exam at the end. The bottom line for me as their parent was that they did their utmost every day, because the grade point average system required consistently excellent work. Doing your best every day makes for a little less pressure and dread for the long term. There isn't that giant axe hanging over your head for nine months. That attitude can easily translate to the UK system.

independant reading that is - I'm not sat with them.

:-( poor kid

The op started this thread saying that she couldn't get her daughter to do her 90 minutes a day. Yes we all want our dc to work and play but I don't think you can make her do it, unless she is very compliant. I couldn't make my dd do it at that age nor as she got older (it was a nightmare trying to motivate her to do any school work at all) yet she is now a successful academic with a PhD.

Skybluepearl, they do help round the house too! That's just ten minutes herre and there though, to empty a dishwasher, or put some laundry away. Dd loves to cook, and we frequently cook together. She is an ace at making pasta.

Regarding the homework, they really don't get that much. If she was getting two hours a night, clearly I wouldn't want her to do more on top. It is 90 minutes max. The school has a policy of linking the amount of homework to the level they are attaining. So the lower they attain, the less they get. Which seems a bit silly IMO.

The boys are more driven than dd, and put more effort in. That's why I'm not concerned about them ATM. Like I keep saying I just want them to put in the effort to attain what they are capable of. Ds1 has sn, and has in the past been dismissed as slow. He works really hard at evereything without encouragement, and is making brilliant progress, and lvoes reading. The dts are more inquisitive and constantly asking questions so learn a lot through simply chatting about things.

I agree that primary schools have made reading a chore btw. We dropped the school reading scheme at home a year ago. They read what they want to read. They fill in their own reading diaries, and write what they think about the books, good or bad. Dt2 is currently engrossed in learning about the Olympics. He has been chosen fiction and non fiction books along the theme.

mirry2 you clearly did something very right!

I didn't say I couldn't get her to do it. She does do it. It was just the fact that she said nobody else has to do it, that made me wonder how reasonable my expectation was and how many parents do actually expect some extra study.

I think what made her say it was coming home yesterday and seeing her friend still out playing. Hr friend is older though, and it was too late for dd to be out in any case. I did explain to her though, that her friend is actually really struggling at school, now doing gcses, and I wanted dd to work now to avoid the sudden impact of that later.

Mirry, what do you think it was that motivated your dd?

I find it impossible to see given how she is atm, how she would get through her education. Left to her own devices at the moment, she would do a bare minimum of homework, then go out every evening.

YANBU, DS is at a grammar school and is meant to do 90 mins of homework a night and this will rise to 2 hours when he goes into year 10. DD is going to a comp and I know from other parents that she will get hardly any homework. I will expect her to do the same amount of subject related work that DS does, even if I have to set her that work myself.

DS and DD also do extra work with their dad learning art (drawing skills and so on); this should be a huge help to DS as he is doing it at GCSE and hopefully DD will want to also. I am also buying them various critical thinking and logic books to do over the Summer so they can learn to think more broadly than just through the subject categories taught by the curriculum.

I agree with you that reading is really important to all areas of the curriculum and disagree with the poster who seemed to be suggesting by your DD's age she should have learnt to read. You are never done with learning to read; the more your DD reads the more she will improve her vocabulary, her inference and deduction skills and just pick up broader cultural knowledge. I wouldn't put an amount of time on reading though because sometimes DD wants to read all weekend if he has an amazing book and other times he isn't in the mood.

Independent learning is a great thing, and we all want our children to learn how to do that. But there is also something to be said for parents who want to teach their kids stuff, or participate quite actively in their learning. It doesn't have to be a chore for the child. I would quite like somebody to turn up at my house who knew a lot about, for example, philosophy and was prepared to really commit to teaching it to me on a one to one basis.

I consider myself to be responsible for my children's education, and the school have helped me by contributing to my children's education. A lot of parents seem to think it operates the other way around.

Somehow she managed to get to university, god knows how-she missed her grades but did a good interview so they still gave her the place. The penny dropped when she could study her favourite subject to her heart's content plus I think I was a role model as I am an academic as well -
but Chopsthescarletduck my daughter was out almost every evening, boy mad, fashion mad, never did any homework, phone calls from the school about her attitude, dreadful parent evenings, dreadful reports, awful exam results, lots of door slamming, tears (mine) and screaming - out all evening, no homework done. i shudder when I think back but now I have to tell her to stop working so hard and have some fun!

Perfectly reasonable as long as it has a point to it.

I think setting extra work depends on a number of factors:

how long is the school day;
how much homework is set;
how much is your DC being stimulated and challenged within school;
how many other extra curricular activities your DC is doing.

If 90 mins includes 30 mins of music practise (which must surely be a given. If DC want to learn instruments, and you are paying for lessons, the quid pro quo must be daily practise no?) and 30 mins homework, then OP is only suggesting 30 mins of extra study. Hardly flogging her.

However, I would have a very clear idea from my DD what she wants to achieve. My own DD was very clear that she wanted to be very proficient in MFL, so we agreed to spend a short amount of time each day on that.

90 minutes a day on top of school sounds a lot. If she enjoys reading and that could count towards it, it's not so bad, but 90 extra a day minutes without that is a big heap of time. Imagine if you had to work an extra day every week on top of your full-time job, and that's assuming she doesn't do her 90 minutes at the weeken too!

During the school holidays I do think it's a good to set some writing and maths exercises, just so they don't lose the habit. My mother did it for me and I was always the only one who hadn't forgotten how to hold a pen come September.