To insist my dd studies in addition to her schoolwork?

[ChopstheScarletduck]

DD clearly thinks I am. We've had this discussion a few times now. Apparently NOBODY else has to do extra work.

She is a solidly average student in general, but lacks motivation in subjects she does find harder, and has terrible organisational skills.

All the kids have been told they must do half an hours reading a day, from school age. The older two do maths and english in addition to that, so around an hour a day (age 11, 9)

I've now told dd I want her to do 90mins a day, which includes homework, reading and study. In the past I've even told her she can do music practice as part of that, but that didn't last very long. I help her with the aspects of her study she is struggling with, though on the whole it is independent study.

She seems to think she should be able rush her homework then hang out with her friends or sit in front of a screen all day, like everybody else does. I want her to work to achieve the grades I know she is capable of if she tries. Her homework is 100% better when she knows she can't get away with just rushing it, as she will just have to find something else to study in any case!

I know academic achievement isn't everything, and she has plenty of time left to do what she wants, and she does various clubs at school, Girls Brigade, a couple of youth clubs.

Please tell me I'm not really the only one who wants their dc to do a little work as well as play!

Just have a read through posts on this site from people having a horrible time, struggling financially and finding they have no choices, or control over their lives.

Its no way to live, and, apart from a few edge cases, that is where not being top of the class will lead. There is a massive danger of projecting our own experiences of forging our careers on our DCs. The world is a meaner and more competitive place now, and you have to have something really special to succeed in it.

YABU. I'm all for instilling good study habits, but turning learning into a chore could really backfire.

A couple of other people have mentioned this point, but just to underscore it once again: How do you spend your free time, OP? Do you read for pleasure? Write for fun? Research topics because you find them interesting? If you model that sort of behaviour, your children will more than likely follow suit.

But if you turn academic work into a hated chore, timing the amount of time the children must read, forcing them to complete reading logs, setting extra work on top of homework, I can't imagine that this approach could possibly spark a genuine love of learning or increase internal motivation.

Then we got reports and her SATs results are still almost all in the same place they were a year ago, so we upped the work a lot more

Do you know that is absolutely normal?

Look it up, yr7-8 dip.

what she is getting now is more of a true reflection of her abilities, she hasnt necessarily gone down, just her grades at yr 6 were higher because she was pushed through sats!

This sounds far too much. Reading should, if possible, be a pleasurable escape, not a duty and actually, children need time to just be children after school. I fear that you may have a full scale rebellion on your hands when she gets older if you remain quite so inflexible and tigerish.

She does have fun. All the groups and things she does, are of her own choosing. (though I did encourage her to do a sport) She is always going out with her friends. she often goes to the cinema or the swimming pool on a weekend.

She doesn't really play video games, or watch tv. She only has access to dvds in her room, so sometimes watches films on a weekend. She rarely watches tv downstairs. I guess the work fits in where other children would be doing that.

I do agree that getting your DD on side voluntarily is a better solution, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if that method isn't working, its Mean Mummy time.

She'll thank you for it one day.

?They want to be rich, and be city bankers so they can work in Canary Wharf and drive Bugatti Veyrons.? ? that?s not modelling, that?s greed! Modelling is copying behaviour, not copying the expectation of results from that behaviour.

well it sounds like she does a balance of other things too, but I still think an extra 90 mins a night is a lot.

I understand you worry for her future, and if my child was struggling I'd probably want to do similar. It's especially worrying when you can see that her siblings don't have the same concerns.

However, I would be worried about turning things like reading into a chore. As others have said, reading should be pleasurable, for fun and an escape. If she starts to feel resentful then you run the risk of turning her off learning altogether.

She'll thank you for it one day.

Not necessarily. Not if the OP isn't careful and she ends up feeling as though she was never quite as good as her more intelligent brothers, or didn't get quite high enough scores/levels/grades.

Not if she feels that her parents love is conditional on her educational/future financial successes.

'Greed' is a very negative word.

I prefer to look on it as wealth giving you choices in life - the opportunity to travel, do things that are interesting to you, be able to have the life you want and also to provide your DCs with the life you want them to have.

The pursuit of money is not necessarily an end in itself, but a means by which you can have the life you want.

There's nothing at all wrong with having that as an objective. Nothing at all.

I'm all in favour of working hard but I don't really get the idea of independent study when it comes to children. It's important to make sure they do their homework, and to do it to the best of their ability, but I don't quite get what else they might be doing.

BTW, Amberleaf is right about the year 7 dip, which I think is mainly down to primary schools using canny methods to inflate sats grades.

This all depends upon what time she gets home from school and how much homework she has. If she is home by five and has had a snack and got settled by half past, the homework is probably done by half past six. Assuming bed at 8.30, with lights out at 9, she has two hours to fill. Presumably supper takes at least half an hour and I think that she should have an hour doing as she pleases. That leaves a maximum of half an hour for music practice/ additional work.

Overall, I agree with your requirement of 90 minutes constructive activity of some sort, including the homework; but I think that banging on with reading and maths now she is beyond SATs will just bore her. If she is reading in bed for half an hour (her choice what she reads) there is no need to make that an "extra work" requirement. I would be inclined to have her spend her "constructive time" doing her music, or watching an educational dvd (history of art, science, wildlife etc) or revising French verbs or similar

folk Interesting point, and I do see where you are coming from.

Personally, I think that the feeling of not being as good as someone else/slightly insecure about yourself is actually a good, motivating thing. It encourages you to strive to be better than you are.

If a person is led to believe that the status quo is ok, and good enough, then there is no reason for that person to want to do any better.

I agree that there is a very fine line to tread here, but I disagree that just accepting people as they are is a good thing for them.

If I'm perfectly honest here, I think my parents' love/approval was partly conditional on my educational/financial success. Not sure if this is a good thing or not. I'm one of the most motivated people I know, but don't have the best relationship with my parents (probably as a result).

I do respect them though, and am grateful that they pushed me, because I am reaping the rewards of that now.

My parents tried this with me and it backfired spectacularly. You will put her off studying for life, and she will resent you and be less inclined to tell you things, talk to you, and generally communicate with you. You also risk setting her apart from her friends and the knowledge that she will "benefit in the long run" or "thank you later" won't make any difference, she's too young to think like that about some dim and distant future.
As the child who was bullied mercilessly for being a swot, please reconsider. Let her be a child, or risk driving her away. How long do you intend to exercise complete control over every aspect of her life? You'll come home one day in 8 years time and find a note saying she's gone to live with Wayne who understands her...

To put it in perspective, our Year 7 and 8 boarders do one hour's prep time in the early evening, after supper, and half an hour beforehand. Splitting it up helps make it manageable.

OP you say her grades have stayed the same since SATs a year ago. That could be because she was pushed really hard to attain somewhat inflated SATs grades, or maybe the current school aren't teaching/pushing her?

What did the school say at Parents Evening / in her reports since she started?

Recreation is 15 mins in the morning and lunch is 45 mins which includes time to eat lunch - pretty full on if you ask me.

...and anyway, it's not really a 6 hour school day of 'study', is it?

It really, really isn't and you wouldn't want it to be. Practice makes perfect and that is the difference between plenty of people I know in good jobs who aren't actually especially bright, they just had the discipline to study.

cake you're right, I completely agree that a degree of competitiveness with yourself and/or others can be motivating.

But it also depends how that message is transmitted by the parents and received by the child. It can also result in a person who feels inadequate and nervous and lead to them becoming an anxious underachiever. You need to fully understand the personality/temperament of the child in order to pitch it right. I think, nowadays, some parents panic (not saying the OP is one of these) or see their child's educational successes as a reflection on themselves (I know a few of those!)

I used to mentor people who have since been labelled NEETS through Connexions. A lot of them were kids whose parents didn't guide/push/enable them. But some of them were clearly capable nervous wrecks who grew up believing that nothing they did was quite good enough and doubting their ability to do anything. As such, kids who could have gone to university (and in some cases did) ended up unable to do a shift in McDonalds in case they "fucked it up" and ended up unemployed and feeling unemployable.

Like many things though, we all have our own take on this and understanding of what the OP means and what it would look like. For some people it might be a draconian 90 minutes of Victorian schooling, for others it might be a bit more lighthearted whilst still achieving the desired outcome.

It sounds as though the OP does ensure her DD has a balance of things.

I expect we?re coming from a similar place in different ways CakeIAmYours I?d say education has definitely given me choices in life, not wealth ? I don?t have any wealth, just an overdraft and a modest salary! But I travel a lot (for work so I don?t need to pay for it), the work I do is extremely interesting, and luckily the life I want to provide my DS with happens to be a state education and an interest in social justice causes ? which is lucky because that?s what I can afford! I love going to work, enjoy every day, and honestly can?t believe people pay me to get on a plane, go to a new place and meet a bunch of cool people and talk to them about things that interest me. But without my education I wouldn?t have this life, as I wouldn?t be qualified to do an interesting job with lots of travel opportunities. I do believe education gives you choices, and that?s why it?s worth pursuing it. So I do agree with you about the importance of having choices. But I think wanting a Bugatti Veyron is greed. Which is a negative word for a normal human drive, but can?t think of another word for it. Of course, my wanting a Dairy Milk earlier this afternoon was also pure greed. And I bought it and ate it

Personally, I think that the feeling of not being as good as someone else/slightly insecure about yourself is actually a good, motivating thing. It encourages you to strive to be better than you are.

I think that is true too. I was bright as a child, and I was told I could do anything I wanted, constantly told how clever I was, and never bothered to lift a finger. I've never really learned how to revise, and really struggled once I left school. I wasn't used to actually working at something, I just sailed through getting high grades, but not as good as I could have.

My parents never travelled (been abroad once), didn't drive (mum still doesn't). I had no concept of post graduate level jobs, and so i didn't really have any ambition at all. I didn't really have any awareness of why I needed to work. Dd wants to travel, to drive, to go to concerts, watch live sports, so needs to work as a dead end job won't pay for those things!

the twins are 7, I think most young boys would love a fast car one day, and be overwhelmed by canary wharf! I don't think they are greedy, I think they are typical small boys. I'm sure by the time they are dd's age, they might have slightly more realistic expectations and less material wants.

dd wants to travel more than anything. She has been to most of western Europe in the past few years, driving and camping, and loves history and art. I just feel it would be such a shame for her to miss out because she didn't work now.