to think a biological child is not a right

[Aribura]

and the NHS should not fund IVF in favour of vital medications for already existing people e.g. cancer drugs being funded?

I'm feeling masochistic this evening and am looking forward to munching on some biscuits and getting my ass handed to me.

Bumdrop the OP is Amanda Platell?!

I've just had the misfortune of clicking on her latest vile piece of garbage about IVF on the DM website

I am not sure if it is her or not, whoever the OP is she seems to have spent a disproportionate amount of time on the baby names topic.

oh, and Amanda Platel seems to have been dealt a very bad hand as far as choosing partners goes. A husband through her late 20s and 30s who cheated on her, a partner of six years who told her he didn't want children...

One wonders, seeing as she is so good at giving out advice to women who 'wait to have children' why did she knowingly stay with a man in her mid 30s who had told her he did not want children when she so clearly wanted them herself if anyone should be able to understand that sometimes it's not a career that stops you from having children then surely she should!

So if an article pops up taking the mickey out of baby names we'll know it's her!

I don't know for sure ...
But seems a bit uncanny to me !!!

That's the thing that most angered me about the article - the first paragraph was a swipe at women wanting children in their forties with the assumption this is because they are those selfish career women that the DM hates so much.

Oh! Just seen the posts about the article further up

Curious head gear on the wedding shot there Amanda.

"I would have thought, for a lot of natural conceptions, there is an element where the women and/or couple have decided "I/we want" a baby before they start trying."

Well of course.

But the thing that really pisses me off about this argument is that it contains the subtext that wanting to have a child is no different from wanting a handbag.

It's saying to women (because these arguments are addressed to women, their partners excited to be fathers are invisible) that having a baby is just one consumer choice among many.

It's not one of nature's strongest urges, it's just something you fancy and if it doesn't work out you just buy something else, choose another "lifestyle accessory" and move on.

And then these disingenuous fuckers argue that women who "left it too late" (because infertility isn't a cruel lottery, but a morality tale) are just looking to have a baby as an accessory, which just begs the question.

I don't know any parents who think having a child is like going shopping for a new treat. The only people who seem to think it are the same ones who excoriate shallow "career women" for "wanting it all".

Very well said thing x

I have just been reading some of the comments on the DM article. They are as depressing as the original crappy article.

Okay, busted! You caught me - every single person who thinks prioritising new births over medication for the sick is foolish, is Amanda from the Daily Mail, including the hundred odd comments supporting the article. Including every comment ever left on similar articles. All Amanda. I'm Amanda too. You caught me, I was trolling you all for financial gain. I award myself no points and may God have mercy on my soul.

women that don't have a baby until 40 probably pay much more tax in their lifetime so it could actually be seen as profitable by the exechequer.

The world is a better place for duelling having a baby anyway though.

"every single person who thinks prioritising new births over medication for the sick is foolish"

Maternity services (new births) given a lower priority than curing the sick?

Yup, everyone who wants that is very foolish.

And other things.

O and who is going to pay for the NHs in the future and our pensions etc. I know its all these new babies.

Okay, busted! You caught me - every single person who thinks prioritising new births over medication for the sick is foolish, is Amanda from the Daily Mail, including the hundred odd comments supporting the article. Including every comment ever left on similar articles. All Amanda. I'm Amanda too. You caught me, I was trolling you all for financial gain. I award myself no points and may God have mercy on my soul.

Is Amanda some new word for Cunt I haven't heard before?

ok now - i am coming in on this one rather late but no-one as far as I can see has mentioned adoption here.
I have an adopted DS and a biological DS and I feel that if the adoption system was sorted then the strife over IVF and infertility would be different. Ie if it were easier to adopt then there wouldn't be such desperation to have a biological child because the option to parent a non-biological child wd be an option. we all know thatin this country adoption is difficult and fraught with challanges at all stages along the way. most people wanting a child just want to parent a child. as infertility accosts them week and week and month after month the grief hits harder and harder. If there were some real hope of being paretnts by another means i am sure the arguments would be a bit different. am i very biased? I had ivf for yrs nad yrs, grieved over the lack of biological child- moved on adopted then had a child( shock horror) and my adopted child does in no way feel like second best. I feel utterly blessed to have him.
there you- my tuppeny'sworth

Oh hello Aribura. Nice of you to come back. You still haven't answered my question though - do you have children and how long did it take to conceive them? A while, or did you just fall on a cock?

I think it's a ridiculous opinion to have.

So my taxes can go on pumping people's stomachs on a Friday night, or giving a heavy smoker a new lung... But not helping a lovely couple have a child of their own.

I may have to have fertility treatment, who are YOU to say it's not my 'right' to have it? I've paid my taxes just like other people, why should I be able to have treatment because my body isn't working properly?

We fix enough wonky boobs and put gastric bands in the obese, maybe these areas should be targeted first

Not something that is caused through no fault of the person

Said this on the other thread.

Aribura with your infinite wisdom, of saying that people with infertility problems do not have health problems, can you explain why then do WHO classify infertility as a 'medical need' and why in the NICE guidance is there a whole section about the psychological effects of infertility?

What makes you more qualified than these two bodies who do see that there are medical issues that should be treated?

Or are you just spouting ignorant bollocks? Still.

You know what Aribura?
There are few things on this earth that piss me off more than some pontificating fecker co-opting the disease that killed my daughter in order to make some spurious point.

Like there are hoards of us sitting in grief blaming those damned infertile, selfish women for killing our children.

There aren't and we don't.

Because we are not bitter and twisted and wish misery on others. Let those women and their partners have the babies they yearn for. Use my taxes if that is what it takes. Give someone the joy of having a family.

And leave my DD and others like her out of it.

OP, I feel sorry for you, you must be really bored to start a thread like this!

Before you typed it did you think about how hurt some of the people who will read it might feel? Probably not, but then you probably haven't struggled to have a 'biological' child!

I have a beautiful 4 year old daughter, but we went through a great deal to get her:

3 full cycles of ICSI
3 abandoned cycles of ICSI
1 miscarriage after a successful cycle
4 long years of treatment, tears and heartache
and a massive £15,000 dent in our pocket

I couldn't have treatment on the NHS because my then husband had children from a previous marriage, this was even more heartbreaking. As much as I loved them, they weren't mine?

So, OP next time your bored, please think about what your doing and how you might upset us 'infertile' people!

Cupcakes - I'm sorry to hear about your last cycle, big hugs xx

To all the other Mumsnetters trying to conceive, good luck xx

MrsDV :(