to think a biological child is not a right

[Aribura]

and the NHS should not fund IVF in favour of vital medications for already existing people e.g. cancer drugs being funded?

I'm feeling masochistic this evening and am looking forward to munching on some biscuits and getting my ass handed to me.

It's a bit late, aren't you worried it might be handed to you tomorrow morning in the cold light of day?!

it isn't a right, but not being able to is an affliction to those who are desperate for a child.

Infertility is/can be caused by a medical condition. You have a right to treatment and health care in this country. Many of the people using the service are taxpayers so fund it and the ones that are not taxpayers are the reason there is a National Health Service.

what NicNoc said....you pit it better than I did lol

Many of the people using the service are taxpayers so fund it and the ones that are not taxpayers are the reason there is a National Health Service.

I don't understand the second part of this statement.

What I meant by that is the NHS was created to stop medical care being accessible to the wealthy or only those that could pay for it while the poor people just got on with dying. If you are unemployed and not paying tax you don't lose your right to healthcare because you currently aren't able to pay.

People who are not taxpayers are on a very low income. We have the NHS so that even those on a very low income have access to healthcare. If we were all earning enough to afford private healthcare we wouldn't have an NHS.

sorry x-post

Yours is clearer than mine!

I keep trying to call you Batman, sorry

You can call me Batman if you like

Holy priceless collection of Etruscan snoods Batman - It's all about Nye Bevan!

I'd make a rubbish Robin !

Why is infertility/IVF always compared to cancer in terms of necessity? Do you have any idea how much the NHS is used for non life threatening conditions/issues? I could list a million examples of where money could be saved on non essential treatment (I work in the NHS).

I can't be impartial about this topic as I've been trying to conceive for a long time. I don't know if the OP has any experience of infertility. I couldn't even begin to explain how depressed this whole experience has made me feel.

Im sat here in agony with period pain unable to sleep after another failed cycle probably not the best thread to read.

Also agree with nic and cupcakes...

Suspect this thread could get messy.

I've got nachos, hotdogs, popcorn and ice cream that you eat with a little shovel. And some vuvuswelas.

I think what you have said is very easy to say if you don't know someone who has been in this situation.

So much heartbreak is caused by infertility. It can devastate people. I'd rather give my tax to someone to try and conceive a desperately wanted child than pay for all the vomiting pissheads in the city centres of an evening.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that Cupcake.
It sucks to be where you are.
We had 6 years of failing to have a baby in nearly all the ways there are. In the end we just failed to even conceive. After the mc's I thought I was just permanently broken.
We did not have a successful first run at IVF or with FET but after a break (as the hormones were causing OHSS etc) we went back and were successful.
Once we were successful we kept on being successful.
We were lucky but I know we're not alone.
Some days I hated people telling me how it worked for them, some days I desperately wanted to hear about it. I hope you don't think I'm meaning to be insensitive.
Sending moral support.

6 was our lucky number btw in case that reads a bit flippantly. I'm not suggesting anything by that just background.

Sorry to hear of your failed cycle cupcake

Don't know if you have ever struggled to conceive OP (assuming not) but most IVF treatment will be because of a medical condition. I hope you or a friend or your son or daughter never have to experience the heartache of disappointments and miscarriages.

Most IVF treatment is not "free", ie the first round may be depending on the area you live in but some areas you still have to pay and then pay for additional rounds too; you also are likely to pay for the medication too (£600+) as nhs's tighten up on cost savings.

If treatment for cancer or other life threatening illness is being denied in your situation, then you need to complain / appeal this, not start a thread bashing IVF recipients. It is very emotive and will gain nothing but further heartache for people in the middle of IVF.

Here's my first ever , hope you don't choke on it.

The OP is right. And what about the selfish bastards with bunions and in growing toenails? Why should they have a right to healthy feet when the NHS could spend the money on cancer drugs?

And what about the selfish gits with arthritis? No one dies from arthritis yet they have really expensive drugs that could be spent on cancer.

And what about those precious mothers, getting ABs, and Calpol, and nit lotion and all sorts for their kids FREE, when the money could be spent on cancer drugs? Eh? Eh?

And Old People! They're so expensive. Self centred old buggers. Unless they've got cancer, then we should keep them. Obviously.

And on a more serious note, how crass to start a thread like this, out of boredom, which actually will be desperately painful and raw, for many people. How terribly hurtful.

NicNoc thanks for sharing, so glad you finally got there. I actually love hearing other people's stories as it gives me hope.

I've just realised my post makes it sound like I've had IVF. I just meant another failed month ttc for me. We have had an awful time getting any help from our GP. My GP is a complete idiot who also thinks infertility is a waste of NHS resources. I've had to complain to my PCT and change GPs just to get a referral to a fertility specialist.

On the plus side our new GP is lovely and is angry that we have been treated so badly so far. According to PCT policy we should have been referred in October!

Sorry for hijacking the thread

To an extent I agree with the OP but would prefer to see cuts made in other areas first. If it came to the point where there was a clear choice between IVF and life saving medication then I would come down on the side of life saving medication (as I believe most people would) but we have a long way to go before this is the case.

I am also a bit concerned about the official figures for success rates. If, as the latest figures suggest, (taken from discussion pages so may be inaccurate) the success rate for IVF is only about 17%, and less than that for one cycle, then I do think it is the only area where we are spending the kind of money we are for the reletively small number of successes. Most medication with that sort of success rate would be written off.

Infertility is a disease in its own right. As well as preventing conception (a biological and social urge), it can lead to heartbreak, isolation, depression, marital breakdown... So many people suffer from infertility in this country and often they suffer in silence because of ignorant views such as those of the OP. I think the OP should consider themselves extremely lucky that infertility has not (as yet) affected their lives and hope that none of their dear ones will ever have to go through it.

I have never replied to an AIBU before but yes YADBU.

Having a biological child is not a right, imo. However whether its a right or not does not stop the hopelessness when a person discovers they are unable to have children. If ivf can give people hope I am happy for it to be done on the NHS. Unless you have been faced with infertility you don't have any idea of how painful it is.

I agree with pp, that starting a thread like this because you're up late/can't sleep/ feel like shit stirring is totally out of order, and incredibly painful for those ttc and/or in the midst of treatment.

And also agree with a pp that tens to thousands is wasted treating silly pissheads every weekend. Complete drain on our medical staff (and police come to that) who could be using their skills to save and help the genuinely ill.