Would you be offended by a father accompanying his small daughters into the ladies toilet?

[NickECave]

I have two dds aged 4 and 2. My dh often takes them out and about in town on his own and inevitably needs to take them into public toilets. The thing is that male public toilets are often extremely dirty and unsanitary and I'd much rather he took them into the ladies. My question is would you be offended by a man coming into the ladies toilet when he is obviously accompanying a small girl? I don't personally know anyone who would have a problem with this but would be interesting to see if lots of people disagree with me.

If you are in the category named on the loo door have at it - whatever purpose or sex they are provided for. I won't argue with your self-classification - if it's a baby change and you need a baby change, if its disabled and you class yourself as disabled either temporarily or permanently, that's all up to you. But using a disabled toilet when you are not disabled because you have a buggy IS 'using a disabled toilet cos you have a large item and it's easier'.

I confess immediately to not having read the whole thread as 31 pages was going to take some time!
IMO - The difference between a member of the opposite sex (child OR adult) entering the toilets intended for men rather than a man(boy) entering the ladies', is that women are enclosed in cubicles rather than being exposed at a urinal.
I'm not bothered by a man taking his daughter in the ladies', but can also see that some ladies may not be comfortable. For me, the ideal should be that the baby change is seperate from the disabled toilet, and clearly marked as being for the use of parents with children. This, to me, is a hangover from the days when it was a rarity for a man to be out with his daughter(s) / children alone.
From the business point of view space often precludes an extra toilet, as well as the costs involved. A large business such as a supermarket or those such as soft play should be considering these issues in this day and age.

i would be more offended by the sight of a grown woman on the toilet doing her business with the door open watching the buggy than I would be seeing a man take his young daughters into the womens. I don't want to see other womens fanjos thank you very much.

Women with buggies and multiple children may, with some effort and ingenuity, be able to use normal toilets but so could some (obviously not all) disabled people - with some effort and ingenuity. Why should either group have to struggle?

Consideration, empathy and common sense should be the rule for all. Nobody should need to use effort and ingenuity.

People sprouting the 0.00001% chance of a child being abducted- therefore parents should leave children outside are the same ones who are bothered by the 0.00001% chance of a man (with children needing the loo) being a perv. Or they don't want their sensibilities offended yet can't see why some women don't want their daughters exposed to men and their willies. All viewpoints equally valid but over the top.

And the amount of disabled people needing the toilet immediately (not being able to wait 2 mins) is also statistically small. So everybody else in need has to use effort and ingenuity?

Get a grip people and use common sense.

Not always. Not all the time. Like I said, you have to look at the facilities and see what is available. If you are alone, with a sleeping newborn baby in a pram, and the ladies toilet is not practical to use without waking the baby up, and pooing with it sat on your knee, then is it really so entitled to use the disabled loo?

If you can, use the ladies of course.

I have never ever seen anyone take a newborn baby out of a pram, leave the pram outside the door, and go to the toilet with the baby sat on their knee. Never.

If you can get a pram in the ladies then great, but you cant always.

If I was out and about, and chatting to you, and said crikey I need the loo but look its upstairs and I cant get a pram in, would you really tell me to take the baby out, and carry it upstairs? Really?

I cant see why these facilities cannot be shared nicely by those with a genuine need.

People sprouting the 0.00001% chance of a child being abducted- therefore parents should leave children outside are the same ones who are bothered by the 0.00001% chance of a man (with children needing the loo) being a perv. Or they don't want their sensibilities offended yet can't see why some women don't want their daughters exposed to men and their willies. All viewpoints equally valid but over the top.

I don't want men in the ladies loo because it's a ladies loo, for adult women to go about their toileting in peace without fear of embarrassment in front of men, not because I assume all men are perverts.

It's sexualising children to apply rules about which toilets they are allowed in in my view - they are just children they should be able to use either, and I'd feel there was something very wrong if my child was traumatised by a glimpse of penis in the context of the toilet. It's the adult carer that should use the appropriate toilets for their gender.

If people are very offended by urinals, and seem to think that men's willies are visible to all and sundry while they use them, well, maybe we should get rid of urinals and just have cubicles for all? That seems a good idea to me!

There is a genuine need if you need to change a nappy, or you cannot practically access the ladies toilet.

If you can practically access a ladies and dont need to change a nappy then no, not really.

Whats wrong with that? I dont really understand.

Odd isn't it that most people seem to be encountering empty loos while one or two posters on here are encountering loos full of the 'entitled'.

Nothing odd about it at all Sarcalogos. Disabled people are hugely in the minority therefore the probability of a mummy encountering one is quite low. Whereas the probability of a disabled person encountering a mummy are quite high. Basic maths really.

i would be more offended by the sight of a grown woman on the toilet doing her business with the door open watching the buggy than I would be seeing a man take his young daughters into the womens. I don't want to see other womens fanjos thank you very much.

So don't look then. Get a grip and use some common sense.

I wouldn't be offended

Of COURSE its likely a disabled person comes across a mummy when its so common that they are dual purpose toilets and nappy changing facilities.

I wouldn't be offended but I wouldn't be overjoyed if a man came into the ladies.

The clue is in the name on the door

I think the difference is in what people notice Sarcalogos. I notice every time I encounter a disabled toilet because I know I have to either take a battering, run the gauntlet of general public huffing in the ladies or worry about sending ds1 into the mens with ds2/ds3 (they're not strong enough to handle him really).

If I was able bodied using the disabled toilet my day wouldn't be remotely affected by someone using the disabled toilet so I wouldn't notice whether it was full or empty.

It's even bloody worse when I need the toilet. Because I have to persuade ds1 to come in with me (I can't leave him outside). But if he doesn't need the toilet it's not that easy to persuade him to enter on I use the disabled toilets again by preference in that case, but if they're occupied I can't use the mens so I have to take him into the ladies with me. Or wet myself.

Whale - as I said you don't want your sensibilities offended ( toileting in peace- without fear of embarrasment - but think that women shouldn't have feelings about their daughters being in the mens which is fine by you.

I am playing devils advocate here BTW. I don't have a problem with DD in mens loos. I don't actually have a problem seeing women on the loo. I just said that IMO that is more embarrasing TO ME than a dad in the loo.

I totally understand and empathise with women who are uncomfortable with men in the ladies but I am just saying people who are uncomfortable should not dismiss the views of women who don't like their daughters in the mens. All the viewpoints are equally valid.

I've given you reason why I think it's unreasonable to have a problem with children going into either sex's toilets.

Whale - Why do you think that it is unreasonable for people to think that children may be traumatised yet you feel so uncomfortable and embarrassed yourself. Genuine question?

Those who don't want men in ladies, what would you do in my situation when the disabled toilet is occupied and either I or ds1 needs the toilet? Genuinely interested in replies -maybe there's something I haven't though of

(Reminder, ds1 is 13 and getting older all the time, cannot be left alone, needs constant supervision, cannot wait for the disabled toilet to be empty)

Children are going into the 'wrong' loo with a parent. They aren't going to be so terribly traumatised are they?

Is it just the people that don't want men in the ladies that have to get a grip?

she I explained this, quite well in my post earlier:

"It's sexualising children to apply rules about which toilets they are allowed in in my view - they are just children they should be able to use either, and I'd feel there was something very wrong if my child was traumatised by a glimpse of penis in the context of the toilet. It's the adult carer that should use the appropriate toilets for their gender."

Children are children applying your own sexualised views to them is bizarre. I have sexualised views on the opposite sex as I am an adult. I would be uncomfortable seeing a grown man's penis because I am an adult who knows all about willies, and sex. A child should not be bothered by these things, and if they are there is something very wrong.

That is why I think it is unreasonable to think a child would be traumatised by the glimpse of a willy.

I agree with jins

saintly, Of course your son should use the ladies if the disabled isn't free. That's totally different from men taking young girls in to the ladies as they cold easily use the gents.

I can so totally see both sides. I think each situation has to be judged on its own merits and people need to be understanding.

Sometimes we might feel uncomfortable about something but people should put their own feelings aside if you can see a genuine reason for something.

Be that - a man in the ladies loo with small children
- a lady with her 13 year old son
-a harassed mother with buggy and multiple children

As I said - a bit of common sense and empathy

None whatsoever Saintly. But like you say, people are odd and Im sure you would get comments. You seem to be in a no win situation, as you are also open to comments for using the disabled loos as your son has no outwards signs of disability.

I just feel that everyone should give thought to what toilets they practically need to use for their situation. And only use the disabled if its really that necessary.

Which IMO does not include a dad of an able bodied daughter who could use the mens.

But does include when they are dual nappy changing, and when you have looked at the facilities and cannot get a pram in the ladies, and you do not want to wake up a sleeping newborn/small baby, carry them up a flight of stairs, and sit them on your knee whilst you go about your business.

Its not often im in that situation as usually the ladies are ok, or I am with a friend who can watch the baby. But is has happened.

If we all thought a bit more before using them, ok they will not always be empty but it should cut down on a lot of the traffic.

*Those who don't want men in ladies, what would you do in my situation when the disabled toilet is occupied and either I or ds1 needs the toilet? Genuinely interested in replies -maybe there's something I haven't though of

(Reminder, ds1 is 13 and getting older all the time, cannot be left alone, needs constant supervision, cannot wait for the disabled toilet to be empty)*

If that's the case, then I wouldn't mind you supervising him in the ladies. Can't say it's a situation I've ever come across but this would count as an emergency when general rules can be compromised.

Whale - but you wouldn't be seeing a males penis in a ladies loo with cubicles. And they wouldn't be seeing any of you either.