Would you be offended by a father accompanying his small daughters into the ladies toilet?

[NickECave]

I have two dds aged 4 and 2. My dh often takes them out and about in town on his own and inevitably needs to take them into public toilets. The thing is that male public toilets are often extremely dirty and unsanitary and I'd much rather he took them into the ladies. My question is would you be offended by a man coming into the ladies toilet when he is obviously accompanying a small girl? I don't personally know anyone who would have a problem with this but would be interesting to see if lots of people disagree with me.

What is the alternative to the changing room at the swimming baths?! Even if a small girl can be changed poolside the adult male can't and if she's not old enough to be able to use the ladies by herself she's not old enough to be left poolside whilst he goes and changes.

Furious if your DH takes your children into the correct toilet/changing rooms for their age? Whyever so?! Most places have guidelines that require your child to be supervised to the age of 8 - and adults of the opposite sex are not allowed in segregated areas. That's pretty much the whole point!

why would people be furious if their dp/dh take their dd's into a mens toilet?

my dd is not at potty training age yet! but once she is i assume dp when he takes her out will take her into the mens toilet, and once she is old enough 5+ he would wait outside the ladies whilst she went in, i imagine he may stick his head round the door and call for her/check on her if need be.

i wont have a problem with him taking her into the mens toilet in the same way as he doesnt have a problem with me taking ds4 into the ladies with me as he is just 4 and i did the same with the other 3 boys when they were younger.

as i said I wouldnt have an issue with the situation the op describes, but many women would for whatever reason. i also agree that if the toilets are so minging you dont want to take your child in to them then complain!

and i am not polishing my halo just because i dont use a disabled toilet when not necessary, theres nothing worthy about that its just polite!

I would buy relative risk argument if men didn't pee so no male toilets were provided and men were using women's toilets as an alternative to making their dds pee on the ground but the idea that men should be able to use women's toilets instead of men's just because they think that they

a) might be nicer

b) won't have 'creepy men' in them

c) their wives who aren't with them would prefer it.

well, it all seems a bit unnecessary. Seriously, if you are in a non nightclub or non festival toilet and it is too dirty to use then complain.

I'd think he'd be better taking them into a Disabled loo if there was one because some people might object (I wouldn't bother personally). I know what you mean about men's loos - they are generally more manky than the ladies.

For all of you saying how uncomfortable you would feel with a man being in the ladies toilets, do you not see how many men might feel even more uncomfortable with a small girl being in a mens toilet?

As women we do our business behind a closed door, men are standing there more or less exposing themselves.

I don't get this mens are mankier than the ladies - in general mens toilets are used much less than the ladies in town (more women shop and for longer, men use urinals mostly, men don't hover etc.) and I have not seen manky toilets other than the occasional recently used single cubicle of multiple that really just needed a flush.

Womens may well be cleaner, but I can't really imagine how you'd notice - or indeed why they should be, and mens are certainly clean enough. Surprised at all the women with so much knowledge of mens loos.

If you are a man in a mens toilet then you know that a girl might come in with her dad and if it bothers you then you can use the cubicle. This is especially true of the type of places that dad's and dcs will tend to be, cinemas/restaurants/ice rinks etc. Its the equivalent of a woman changing in a cubicle rather than a women's communal changing area because she knows a boy might come in with his mother. If you are a woman in a womans toilet you have an expectation that other women will come in, you have an expectation that boys will come in but you do not have an expectation that adult men will come in. I don't buy into the argument that because some men may feel uncomfortable in the presence of small girls then women have no right to feel uncomfortable in the presence of adult men in a female only space.

Squeakytoy I've been in the situation hundreds of times, and I've never seen any hint of inconvenience from someone in the loo, or had any discussion with another man - of course it's not impossible, but I really think it's unlikely. You are not exposing yourself at a urinal!

My dh takes dds to a pool with family change, he uses disabled toilets when out with them. I don't like the idea of my little dds walking past men using urinals they may be facing away but they still stood outside of a cubicle not very privately doing a wee my dds don't need to be exposed to that & the questions that would follow, unnecessary. I don't think a quick pop in the disabled toilet is impolite or puts anyone out, as I've said before I've yet to come out & find anyone without a pram waiting to go in.

What sort of questions could they possibly ask that are inappropriate?

ImaginateMum - I hope your brother found a decent man in the Mens, same as I found a "protector" in the Ladies. It must have been very scary for him.

For what it's worth, my DH has taken our DDs into the mens' toilets or changing rooms when we've been out and about, and he's never mentioned any problems with it. When they are older and more "aware" I suppose it'll be more of a problem, but by then I'm hoping that he can just send them in and wait outside, as they'll be old enough to sort themselves out.

A father accompanying very small children of 2 and 4 - no, I would understand why he was there and accept it

I am generallly have no inhibitions about nudity, would happily get changed in a mixed communal area etc (ie, not a prude!) BUT I feel very strongly about women being able to have a safe space with no adult men. To everyone who has mocked the posters who have argued this, well, I'm very pleased that you have had no experiences which have led you to feel like this, but there are others that have and a little empathy can go a long way.

This board is obviously full of women who have given birth relatively recently, and most women find that their inhibitions about bodily function are lowered after giving birth. However, many others, including the elderly and teenagers appreciate having a space without any adult males.

An accompanied girl in the gents is unlikely to see anything dodgy, but removing the social stigma of adults of different sexes in each others' facilities could be very damaging.

We obviously have very different parenting ways if I have to answer that.

BUT I feel very strongly about women being able to have a safe space with no adult men.

It is a toilet for heavens sakes!!! What do people do on airplanes when 200 people are sat there timing how long someone goes in the loo and watching them when they come out, because there is nothing better to look at....

I wouldnt expect a lone man to go into womens toilets, as his motives would be questionable, but a man with young children I would find completely understandable!

Fourlotsoftrouble well as you dc's are disabled they can use the disabled toilet

But why shuld women have to justify this? If they don't want men to come into the ladies loo, then why should they have to accept it? I find this conversation completely bizarre!

I rather see a father with a little girl in the ladies, than subject a little girl watching men with their instruments out at the pissoir in the gents, to be honest.

Nd the woman who is less strong and confident that you- who would be mortified to find a man at the wash baisin when she comes out of the loo? Her feelings don't count?

Why on earth would anyone be mortified to have to stand next to a man at a washbasin????

There are plenty of toilets in europe where the washbasins are communal as you come out of the toilet, (male loos one side, female the other).. I have never noticed anyone looking mortified as they wash their hands.

If your DD would be traumatised by seeing a man's willy in a public toilet, I'm a little worried for her.
I think it would be very unwise for an adult male to go into female toilets - why would he? I would never take my little brother into the man's toilets, it would be ridiculous when he can just come with me. My dad always used to take me and my sisters into the men's when we were little - we'd stifle a giggle when we saw the men weeing into the urinals, but it wasn't emotionally traumatising!

(I'm pretty sure my dad wouldn't have allowed us to laugh, really, but I do remember finding it if anything just quite funny that we were going to the men's toilet. In no way "traumatic"! Ha.)

Ow lovely to be so secure and confident, I am too. But I am not insensitive enough to assume that everyone else is. It's a women's loo. Women have a right to assume there will not be men in there. and it really pisses me off that there a actually women who will happily say that other women's feelings matter less than a man's convenience.

"I rather see a father with a little girl in the ladies, than subject a little girl watching men with their instruments out at the pissoir in the gents, to be honest."
You know that if the little girl is with a responsible father it is very unlikely she would 'see' any willies, don't you? Men wee facing the urinals with their back to everyone else... unless the girl was really staring she'd be unlikely to see anything. Even if she did, I think she would probably avoid ending up in counselling due to PTSD, don't you?

Who cares? I assume a father with a small child won't be up to no good in the ladies. I also assume that women generally don't change their tampons or get undressed outside of the cubicles. Where is the problem, then?