to have asked these people to sit somewhere else?

[musicposy]

I honestly don't know if I was or not, so any opinions welcomed, and I will suck it up if I was

I work for a music examining board and we are at the time when I have to collate all the exam entries. It's part time, seasonal work, but when it comes in, it is hours of work to a very tight deadline.

I took the DDs up ice skating this morning. The really needed not to miss it as DD2 has a couple of competitions coming up. But I really needed to work. So I sat in the leisure centre coffee shop with a coffee at a big table, spread out all my paperwork and got on with it. It was pretty early morning so the place was virtually deserted, masses of empty tables and just a handful of other people there.

Halfway through some complicated adding up (it's literally thousands of numbers) a lady came and sat at my table, opposite me. I thought it was strange because mine was one of the only occupied tables and most people choose a vacant one. She kept making sniffing and sighing noises. Under normal circumstances I might have smiled or asked if she was OK, but I was trying to get this work done.

After a while she got up, got a drink of water, sat down, shuffled some of my papers over and put the drink down. She started the noises again, trying to get my attention, I think, and I did start to think at this point that she might have some sort of special needs, though you wouldn't have known looking at her. I just completely lost concentration in my adding.

About 5 minutes later a man who obviously had Downs Syndrome came over with a coffee on a tray. He said a cheery hello to me and proceeded to also sit down, putting the tray on my paperwork.

At this point I said very nicely "I'm really sorry, but would it be OK if you sat at a different table? I am really very busy."

They looked terribly hurt and got up. A lady a few tables over I then noticed was obviously looking after a whole group of people with learning difficulties. She said "sit here, you're welcome at this table, " and glared at me like you wouldn't believe. Then she sat and shot me looks for the next half hour.

I felt rotten afterwards. I know that in a different cicumstance that could be me or a family member. I really hadn't meant to upset them. But on the other hand, I was at one of the only occupied tables, I asked very nicely, and I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect to be left in peace when the place was so quiet.

So, was I being unreasonable? Did I deserve the glares?

"Don't be so judgy!"

And the name of this forum is ..... ? If the OP doesn't want to be judged then she shouldn't be posting to this forum.

No I don't think you were being unreasonable. The work you were doing is a side issue really (ie confidential or not confidential). You were in a cafe with lots of empty tables. Obviously the person who sat with you didn't think there was a problem, and on most days there probably wouldn't be. Its difficult to come up with the perfect solution that makes everyone happy. The only thing I may have done is gone over and explained to the people involved inc the carer that you didn't intend to be rude ( if was clear they thought that) and explained the reason why. YANBU though.

Musicposy, I think you sound like a very nice person, I would just like to say.

moobaa - but no-one is going to know you have autism. So they're not being rude and intrusive.

My severely autistic son would choose a seat based on the view. if he could see a nice staircase, or a favourite window, lamppost or a diving board from a particular seat that is where he would sit. If he was touching someone's stuff I would move him (and I'm sure the carer in the OP would have, had she noticed that), but I wouldn't move him if he happened to like the view from that seat and was just sitting there (he wouldn't need entertaining - the lamppost would do that, and he wouldn't be irritating people by talking to them as he can't talk). People can actually sit where they like in a public space - despite the cultural preference for people to be as far apart from each other as possible.

If I was sitting at a table and a stranger came to sit at that table (when there were others available), then tried to engage me in conversation when I was writing, or reading a book, I would consider that to be 'pestering' - whoever it was

EXACTLY!!! - some on here are being way to emotive, perhaps understandably if they have DCs with SN, but that doesn't make it right & some others are just being way too PC

I'm no stranger to people with SN, been around them all my life & I am very glad I've had that pleasure, they very often can be an absolute joy :)

BUT like it or not, they DO very often have a childlike appreciation of social interactions, that doesn't make them children, but possibly childlike in that area ^& therefore in some situations, they need guidance from a none SN person - so IMHO jumping down people throats for making that comparison with unsupervised children is just plain daft & based on emotion, not reality - its a way of getting a point across that it CAN be annoying, IF the timing for social chit chat & actions are wrong - which for the OP it obviously was - FACT

Perhaps change the SN adults, to a unknown man sitting at your table & shuffling your papers around, in an otherwise empty cafe, I'd lay bets it would be a 100% in favour of the OP NBU

When I am out with my son I see my role as facilitating his interaction with the world at large. My instinct may be to do everything for him, standing between him and the world if you will, but best interests of everyone are served when I let him try and manage interaction himself a bit. The more independent he can be, the more he can manage the better. Because the less able he is, the more help he needs, the more it will cost the tax payer when I am dead.
So I try and help him do little things. And sometimes it won't work. And sometimes he needs to see the reaction of the public so that he truly understands what is required.
For example I am trying to let him pay for things himself. I have told him he needs to make eye contact and speak but he initially wouldn't. So the first two purchases involved a baffled sales assistant. But now he can do it. He has seen for himself that the assistant needs him to speak so he does.

So IMHO a carers role will occasionally involve taking a deep breath and watching how the person with sn copes. And how the public reacts. Because if a person can manage some independence then society gains.

You weren't unreasonable or rude but I do think there are better ways of handling these sorts of situations. I can't remember who suggested it but moving yourself and making light of it would have been a win-win situation.

yy Paggy.

And kindness, consideration and politeness must always be employed towards all

(apart from the fat pervert man in a suit who sat next to me on a TOTALLY EMPTY TRAIN, and pressed his thigh against mine. Not him)

Was that "their" table, perhaps? I have been tutted at on trains by business men for sitting in "their" seat for the morning commute. I have also been tutted at (and joined in the same way at a table) in a totally empty pub in the afternoon as the other couple "always sit here". YANBU as no one "owns" the tables in a public place and you were polite. The person in charge of the people who sat with you should have anticipated and prevented there from being a problem. Or she could have asked nicely if you could move because "they love this table" or something similar.

JK Rowling wrote her books at a public table in a cafe, so they say.

I study at a public table in cafes.

It is normal to expect people to use empty tables and it generally makes one uncomfortable if a stranger chooses your table when there are plenty of other empty tables. It is entirely reasonable to ask a stranger who has targeted your table to move on especially if they are messing with your stuff.

I often used to meet people in the pub when I was younger, and would grab an empty table if I arrived first. If a stranger wanted to sit at my table I would be very suspicious if there were plenty of empty ones; I would also say, "sorry but those seats are taken".

YANBU at all. The other woman was being ridiculous.

The people in the OP didn't try and engage the OP in conversation (other than saying hello) though did they? The OP thinks the coughing might have been, but she isn't sure.

If the OP hadn't been doing paperwork in a public space the choice of seat would have been unusual perhaps but not actually socially 'forbidden'.

saintlyjimjams I know, my dd has a 1 to 1 when out as she needs it, these people obviously didn't.
they didn't hurt the op, they just tried to engage with her,
sadly no doubt they are used to being told to go away.

YANBU OP. The support worker should have handled the situation better - all she managed to accomplish was making you feel bad, and her attitude probably just confirmed to her charges that they had been rejected in some way.

Sorry we can't say on one hand "she doesn't own the table and it's public"!to then suggest the carer ask her to move because it's the SN adults favourite table.

I have had people come and sit at a table I have been sat at, if there is space they are within their right to sit there.

people can work/study in a public place, but imo they can't complain if they are interrupted as it is a public place

It's not rude because it's not her table!

2shoes I have been in that situation (as I'm sure we all have). I try to engage and have a nice chat for 10 mins and then say, it's been lovely talking to you etc, but I'm so sorry I have to work now, getting up and moving myself if necessary. Just as I would with any human being.

Pagwatch - 100% agree with what you are trying to do. Not always easy is it? Teaching them to buy things in shops is actually a really difficult concept - one of my aduly children for instance, always throws the change away (as logically he no longer needs it).

Also have to say that the carers are sometimes in difficult positions, legally amongst everything else. An adult with SN still has the right to make their own decisions (even if society and other individuals deems those decisions unconventional). As a parent that is very difficult to get right, as a professional carer even more so.

For instance if the carer had said "no X, you can't sit there," then their answer could well have been "yes I can." That answer might be thought of as rude by an outsider, but actually it is simply the truth. A while back my son answered the phone and the caller asked it they could speak to his brother. "No," my son said and put the phone down. Of course the caller thought my son was rude and was angry, but as his brother was out, my son simply spoke the truth - "no" it would not have been possible for the caller to speak to his brother.

You realise that there is a fair chance that the carer was in fact not a worker and a volunteer, and just being there from the goodness of her heart? A great many SN roles are no longer paid, meaning we can;t be judgy about those who care and equally that those qualified in the role like me can;t get jobs.

just mentioning that.

I think what's interesting is that I had assumed there was agreement on the unspoken convention of not sitting near someone else when there is available space - but it seems this isn't so.

Perhaps we need a ruling!

you can make any rules you like, but unless people like the op own the table or it is reserved, anyone can sit there.

I'm with MooBaaWoofCheep. If anyone had sat at the table and tried to engage me, I would have moved. Not in a grumpy way, hopefully, but just so I could sit and read in peace.

If they followed me, I would have left the cafe. I find dealing with other people very hard.

Yes - legally.

It's the unspoken convention issue that is interesting.