to have asked these people to sit somewhere else?

[musicposy]

I honestly don't know if I was or not, so any opinions welcomed, and I will suck it up if I was

I work for a music examining board and we are at the time when I have to collate all the exam entries. It's part time, seasonal work, but when it comes in, it is hours of work to a very tight deadline.

I took the DDs up ice skating this morning. The really needed not to miss it as DD2 has a couple of competitions coming up. But I really needed to work. So I sat in the leisure centre coffee shop with a coffee at a big table, spread out all my paperwork and got on with it. It was pretty early morning so the place was virtually deserted, masses of empty tables and just a handful of other people there.

Halfway through some complicated adding up (it's literally thousands of numbers) a lady came and sat at my table, opposite me. I thought it was strange because mine was one of the only occupied tables and most people choose a vacant one. She kept making sniffing and sighing noises. Under normal circumstances I might have smiled or asked if she was OK, but I was trying to get this work done.

After a while she got up, got a drink of water, sat down, shuffled some of my papers over and put the drink down. She started the noises again, trying to get my attention, I think, and I did start to think at this point that she might have some sort of special needs, though you wouldn't have known looking at her. I just completely lost concentration in my adding.

About 5 minutes later a man who obviously had Downs Syndrome came over with a coffee on a tray. He said a cheery hello to me and proceeded to also sit down, putting the tray on my paperwork.

At this point I said very nicely "I'm really sorry, but would it be OK if you sat at a different table? I am really very busy."

They looked terribly hurt and got up. A lady a few tables over I then noticed was obviously looking after a whole group of people with learning difficulties. She said "sit here, you're welcome at this table, " and glared at me like you wouldn't believe. Then she sat and shot me looks for the next half hour.

I felt rotten afterwards. I know that in a different cicumstance that could be me or a family member. I really hadn't meant to upset them. But on the other hand, I was at one of the only occupied tables, I asked very nicely, and I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect to be left in peace when the place was so quiet.

So, was I being unreasonable? Did I deserve the glares?

I would, yes. Anyone unknown to you, encroaching on your personal space is looking to be entertsined or indulged in some way or other.

Eh? Do you seriously believe that or did you just write it without thinking?

I think the only unreasonable (or maybe a bit naive) thing is the assumption that you'll be able to get on with important work in that setting - I'd've just though 'ah sod it' and put the papers away I guess.

But OP was polite, I think, and her moving away would have looked equally rude. The carer should have handled it better, IMO.

Once I was in a cafe with DP, and a woman who seemed to have Downs Syndrome approached the table from behind him. I could see her as she approached and ended up directly behind him - he still couldn't and obviously I wasn't going to say 'DP there is someone right behind you looking at you with intent' - and she planted a massive kiss on his face. The carer was right there next to her and laughing

The carer in that instance seemed to assume he'd be fine with it and would consider it charming - but really someone coming up behind you with no notice in a public place and kissing you is a bit of a surprise and to be honest, not a welcome one! However it was clear that if he'd reacted negatively, he would have looked like the 'bad person'. The carer didn't say anything at all!

WWYD?

would the poster have been U if the people didnt have special needs I know she said out loud she was v busy i
dont think i would have done that but come on this is about catbumlady making a huge point of the OP distaste of disabled people which isnt the case , she didnt want anybody sitting near her and she didnt really want to engage in conversation with anybody whats wrong with that ?

I am sure you would love to stay and argue the toss. It is low brow.

No one asked her to engage.

I think you were perfectly reasonable. Their "needs" or otherwise are irrelevant. They are human beings and there were other free tables for them to sit at.

thedogsrolex Fri 04-May-12 00:26:32
solidgold, adults with learning disabilities aren't small children.
well said

Originalsteamingnit

are you really suggesting that two people occupying vacant seats is the same as kissing someone?

Of course the carer should have intervened.

why? they were adults, they can sit where they like,

No, of course I'm not suggesting that! It just reminded me of that situation, not because it's the same but because in the nature of things it reminded me of being in a cafe where there was an issue about personal space etc etc.

Nah, not really the same.
Someone sitting right next to me might take me aback but the seats are free. Someone kissing me really ought to ask. Although I can understand the impulse.

We are bloody anal about personal space aren't we?

The thing is carers are like mothers. They could always do it better (according to the general public). And like mothers they sometimes get it wrong. Even when they're generally pretty good at their job.

FWIW I would have apologised to someone kissed, but I would have hoped they would laugh. When ds1 sniffed the lady's sandwich I said 'oh I am so sorry I really didn't expect him to do that' but by then she was roaring with laughter and said she thought he was going to take a bite. It seemed to quite make her day (and she made mine - I was expecting a mouthful of abuse).

CC OP has already made the point quite clearly that it was not confidential or personal information that she was working on.

OP YWABU but not very. I do think Pag is right and it is almost "unEnglish" to sit at someone else's table when there are other choices available and I would not have liked it. I would however have taken the view that there was nothing I could do about it and I would have politely moved myself. To those however saying that people can sit where they like - presumably that would extend to following the OP to a new table if these people so wished or do you actually draw the line somewhere?

And most coffee shops encourage people to work there - provision of free wifi etc is all aimed at doing so and working people are probably far more welcome than messy families etc.

I am.

It seems to me there are tow issues.

1. Is it ok to expect to have space to yourself with a prior claim, in public, when there is plenty more space available?

1. Does the face of sn make a difference or not?

the difference jimjams is a care is an "employee" they are just there to asist the person, not to order them about.

(I am anal about etc)

It annoys me intensely if someone sits near me when there is other space.

Ideally of course with the kissing, you would know it was likely to happen and get in there first. (Same with the sniffing, but that was a one-off out of the blue which is why it took me totally by surprise - had I know he was into sniffing sandwiches I would have walked him out of the cafe via a different route). Obviously.

1. What responsiblities should a carer of those with sn have?

oh 2shoes I agree - especially as there was only one carer with a group then they must be pretty independent (ds1 is always going to have 1:1). But there are so many threads on here now which berate carers for allowing someone with LD's to breathe somewhere near an NT, I'm just pointing out that sometimes carers do get it wrong, and that might affect said NT person for about seconds, but that's all really. The world doesn't stop turning etc etc.

I do know it's not the same - the comparison is 1) a cafe and 2) a carer not behaving appropriately.

hullygully

Depends on the person with LD's. Encourage independence and keep safe I would say.

oh god - not "the face of sn" the FACT

But as other people have said, wouldn't it have looked ruder if the OP got up and moved as soon as the two people joined her?

If you hadnt mentioned sn op you would have had lots of yanbus, you mentioned it though, so now yatotallyu.

If the op was sat at a table reading a newspaper in an otherwise empty cafe and a teenager/ 6ft man/ old lady any person in the world sat down and started shufflng that newspaper. She would have been totally within her rights to say 'do you mind not doing that and please sit somewhere else'

The only reason you are being disagreed with op is the sn. Take that out of the equation and there would have been very different replies to this thread.

'id have told them to fuck off' etc etc

In summary idont think ywbu

Hully - wrt your first point. I think it's fine to hope for personal space in public - but it's unreasonable to expect it.

I pissed someone off on the bus earlier this week by sitting next to them when there were some double seats empty. But the bus was filling up fast and I was getting off pretty early and didn't want to be stuck by a window :shrugs:. Public seat so I chose to sit where suited me.