To be really annoyed with my soon to be landlord.

[wonderstuff]

He has refused to move out his washing machine - I have a really nice washing machine - I want my washing machine in my house. I've agreed to pay his mortgage +++ for a year I don't want to have to store his bloody washing machine. Grr. Hate renting.

Sounds so stressful and upsetting for you, Quint.

I'm a bit confused, how have you signed an agreement but you haven't got a copy of?

I'm sorry it has been so hard for you Quint. I have always looked after my home, I dont understand why some people are so selfish.

I think we can all agree that the downturn in the property market, or probably the massive inflation in property prices that preceeded it haven't been great for most people. We were stuck for years in a one-bed flat we thought would be a canny investment, we were lucky to get back what we paid for it and we had to step off the property ladder.

I would dispute that renting is cushy - you have the security of knowing your house is your own - you are building up equity and one day with the help of your tennants, you will in the future see a good return on your house. I may be forever paying rent. My retirement prospects are poor. Thanks to the wonder that is a short term tenancy agreement I will only ever have 6 months security in a home - I'm terrified that we will have to move out of the area where we live now, which we love, at the whim of my landlord.

The idea that saving money at bank, to get a good return - LOL - I would have to save up my entire years gross salary to get a deposit for a family home around here - and by the time I'd done that no doubt house prices would have risen again - it just isn't going to happen.

I am waiting for one of the following - a) a council house, b) an inheritance, c) a lottery win or d) return of key worker assistance in buying houses. I think I have at least a 5-10 years of private renting ahead of me - I might have to do this forever.

bekspolo I haven't yet signed the tenancy - I've been fleeced by the agents put down a significant holding deposit.

Quint could you not have taken these tenants to court? If the tenants did cause all this damage and actually steal your items then they are legally liable for the costs, even if the costs are far more than the actual deposit. Did you have check in/out inventories?

It doesn't seem particularly useful for people to start arguing over who has it better or worse - surely whether it's good or not depends on how good or not your tenant/landlord is.

Goodness! I feel emotionally wrecked now - this is a rollercoaster!

Having rented for many years we were incredibly lucky to be able to buy the. Keep on our flat when we moved to a house. I can see so many things from both sides.

We rent privately as noone gets a good deal through agencies. I am glad the washing machine issue is resolved - we had an issue with a flat win single beds - we were a you g couple and wanted double beds. We were told that he 'didn't really want to be encouraging that sort of thing' meaning pre-marital relations I presume! We said in the end could we tip the beds (over ten years old by this point) and replace them. All fine and smiles until we moved out when he accused us of theft and charged us well over the odds for beds we never saw (he claimed he only bought the best - we know this to be untrue)

As landlords now we try to make the flat feel like a home. It IS the tenant's home simple as that.

We were reading your posts with real interest - many of the practices you are facing through the agency are illegal in Scotland and haven't been for thirty years. Sadly the legal battle to recoup unfair charges makes it still happen here and still legal in England. It might be worth checking in with a local housing adviser or citizens advice.

In the end though, you get to keep the washer. :)

I think the response you have got is awful op.

People here who have been able to buy due to being born at the right time have no idea how difficult getting information about what is included in a rental agreement is. For one it is not actually in the rental agreement it is in the inventory, whoch you often get given when you move in.

We were told the exact opposite of the truth (hard I know) about what was included in our part furnished rent, by the estate agent. We have had to shell out an extre £800 on soft-furnishings and we are about to try and find another rental that we can fit them into as there is no way I am going to get rid.

We actually have a v good landlady but as she used an estate agent we all ended up screwed. We had no protection in law against what the estate agent had told us, as we were renting.

Jeeze, if this woman had come on here claiming that she had been screwed over by the benfits office you all would have been falling over youself to send her cash fgs!

I do feel for you OP. But as a renter and a landlord i am torn.

We did not buy to let or buy at the right time and are not keeping our house as some kind of nest egg as others assume. We bought at precisely the wrong time. Our house is now in massive negative equity so we cannot sell. It is not building up equity for the future, it is getting worse and dropping by the day.

We had to rent it out because our work moved and we couldn't sell or afford to buy in London. Our rental charges were £200 per month less than the mortgage, let alone all the other stuff/costs which goes with renting.

Then of course we rented somewhere and were at the mercy of all those issues...

We moved back home last year and the relief is amazing. Good luck :)

Dizzy, I could, but it is difficult to take people to court when you dont know where they are, or what they could potentially call themselves. They kept giving different names, and we found letters addressed to a variety of variations of the similar names. We could not track them down. And it would be very costly.

Also, I spoke to the police. It was not theft, as their contract did not say they could not take the furniture. Yes we did have an inventory.
Neither was it criminal damage because the contract did not stipulate that the tenants were not allowed to draw on the walls.

That's very unfortunate, I can see why being a landlord would be off putting after this. I take it you were renting directly to the tenants rather than through a letting agent? A bit at what the police told you, personally that's something I'd be checking up on, but then I am the untrusting sort, don't even trust the police necessarily to get their job right.

A quick google has just found this tenant tracking service as just one example - £50 if they can successfully find the tenant for you. I don't know how long ago all this was that happened to you and what the time limits are for taking ex-tenants to the courts but if you're within the time limits and have the evidence to back your case then imo at least it would be well worth it. I hate it when people do this sort of thing to others, I personally wouldn't have any sympathy for these ex-tenants of yours.

No we used an agency. One with a Nice Green Logo.

Some things are really tricky to deal with when you are based overseas. You cant just pop to London for a bit, if you require two flights and a days travel to get there, and several hundred pounds in airfare, and crash on the floor of friends to do so. At least not when you work, and your dp works, and you have young children.

Not all agents or landlords are bad, but I do think anyone who signs a tenancy agreement without agreeing the inventory first is a bit silly. This is not a personal attack, but what you've done is alien to me!. The deposit you put down should go into a landlords deposit scheme and that agreement should have been signed at the same time as your tenancy agreement.

So, simply you've been mismanaged by the agent (I would imagine they're in breach by holding monies without the correct documents) and secondly the real lesson to learn is to not hand over any money until you've read every line by line and signed an agreement.

If your really stuck message me. I know a little bit about this sort of thing :)

"I do think anyone who signs a tenancy agreement without agreeing the inventory first is a bit silly. This is not a personal attack, but what you've done is alien to me!."

Yes it is, try to be more polite in future

Well yes it would be a personal attack if she had signed a tenancy agreement but she clearly stared she hasn't!!!! Hence why it is NOT a personal attack!!!

Perhaps try reading the thread!

Stated

I haven't paid the LL deposit bekspolo I've given the agents money so they take it off the market and do referencing. They are charging us £450 for this - we will pay the LL deposit and first months rent 2 days before we get the property. Money handed over is agents fees. So I guess before then I should get the inventory? Previously when I've rented I've got this when I moved in and had a few days to raise queries. They are a national chain so I'm assuming they are legit - but you know what assumption is!

"Perhaps try reading the thread!"

"try to be more polite in future"

Ah, you mean you've paid a set up/management fee, not a deposit in the sense that I referred to it as. That fee is waaaay too much. I dont even charge that fee on commercial property for referencing.

Don't assume anything! Insist on getting the inventory before you sign the tenancy agreement. Make sure the inventory is backed up with a photographic colour schedule of condition (there are people who just do this for the letting agent, but you can always do it yourself) - to safeguard any future claim, annotate damage, the smallest item, make sure they know.

Good luck and as I stated above, do ask if you need any further help.

I was shocked at the fee - our current agent charged us £40! I have written to my MP - but really don't feel I have any choice but to pay it.

Thank-you for advice - much appreciated - I know my orginal OP was directed at the LL but actually its the agents I really don't trust now.

I think I do have a chip - I was so proud when I brought my first house at 25 - not being able to see how we could ever get back on the property ladder is saddening, and if private renting wasn't so precarious I'd feel better but I feel like I'm not giving my children security. I never imagined I'd be asking the council for help with housing - but I am where I am.

You know you can sign up for longer than 6 months, it's just that AST's are usually drafted at 6 months?

Might be a good idea if you have a good look at the ARLA website (www.arla.co.uk), it's actually very helpful. Go to the information section and onto tenants. You'll see that there is a complaints section too ........ ;)

I'd like to apologise bekspolo, bit grumpy today :( No wine involved your honour...

Don't worry about it, no offence taken!

in my experience, contrary to some views here, generally it is in the tenants interest to have no inventory, or an inventory with the least detail. If at any point an inventory is to be relied on in court, if the inventory is too vague, the judge rules it to be insufficient and rules in the tenants favour.

There is that, but how often do these things go to court? Genuine question - I don't know the answer.

Besides most resi agents insist on them now.

There is scope to go to small claims court as a tenant if you feel your deposit was unfairly witheld. I know people who have done it and I investigated it as a student, but I didn't have the evidence I needed. Actually on that occaision we didn't have a detailed inventory, we had documented the condition of the house ourselves, and sent copies to the LL - which he was upset about (alarm bells) but we stupidly lost our copy and so were advised we didn't have a case. Maybe we did - it was a long, long time ago. This LL had been taken to SCC and the tenant had recovered money.

My issue is with the agency fees - I feel they are really unfair, I was all up for querying and disputing them, but dh says that would put our tenancy in jepordy - they aren't going to want to renew a tenancy with us if we are kicking up about fees. £480 incl. VAT to get referances and associated admin £125 +VAT to renew contracts, £125 +VAT to check out - I've never been charged a check out fee before.