To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

[zombiegames]

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

Oh we're always fair game.

I'm a catholic teacher.

Sometimes MN is a hostile place...

It is always bash catholics week.

Do you think there would eve be a bash Jewish people week? Many of the things that people criticise catholicism for are present in Judaism, but barely a word is breathed against that faith.

To be fair, the Church has not covered itself in glory in the recent past.

Criticism is not out of order.

But just saying "I don't understand why you're catholic then, why don't you go off and be an anglican" seems a bit pointless.

I personally don't think its for you to say what and why people should believe. Every religion has different degrees, has fundamentalists and liberals.

Many Catholics don't believe in the story of Creation in the same way that they don't believe in Homophobia.

I think you should stop going round telling people why what they believe in is wrong. Its offensive.

To be fair Ethel the Catholics started it this week.
CES sends letter round to all Catholic schools encouraging them to campaign against gay marriage => MNer starts thread despairing of Catholic homophobia => load of MNers reply "I'm Catholic and I don't think homosexuality is sinful (or contraception or fornication)" => other MNer is baffled by number of self-proclaimed Catholics who are happy to put their own moral judgment above that of the Pope and starts thread

It's not a random Catholic-bash out of the blue, though it is perhaps a TAAT.

But secular people and atheists on here seem to be very uncomfortable with liberal people of faith. Particuarly catholics. Why is that? Are they just theologically ill-informed?

Fundamentalist catholics who actually depart from the catholic church's teaching are allowed by the vatican - opus dei and tridentine catholics for example. It is not a forgone conclusion that different interpretations of catholicism are not allowed.

I imagine most catholics use contraceptipn in this country anyway. very lapsed catholic

@Dilys I get that. I am not defending that catholic church and in fact I am seriously considering leaving over the homophobia stuff. Though I would say the catholic bishops started it, not the catholics.

What's a TAAT

The fertility rate in Italy is less than 1.5, and even that is heavily boosted by immigrants having lots of babies, so I assume the Catholics there aren't paying a lot of attention to the prohibition on contraception either.

Thread About A Thread

YABU for proclaiming papal infallibility to be something it isn't and failing to distinguish between 'key parts of the faith' which are central and sexual and social teaching which are both fluid and peripheral.

YABU to proclaim that because someone doesn't agree with a aspect of their religion it is because they don't understand it. Part of the Catholic religion is to be a critical thinker, although not everyone is, obviously. YABU to think that a billion plus individuals across time and across the world will reach the same conclusions when even popes disagree on sexual and social teaching and 'natural law'.

Haven't read the whole thread.
Agree with you to a point. I was also raised RC (convent school) then became athiest. Round here most schools are religious and after a lot of thinking I decided that I could not square sending her to a catholic school. Most of my friends are RC and of course they are not homophobic (some are gay catholics!) and use contraception etc BUT this is against what the pope says and what the pope says is the rules, that's kind of the whole point.

What you have to remember though is that for many people the religion is a huge part of their identity - most of my friends who are RC are of Irish or Italian descent and so it's just something they do, it's a part of who they are and the community IYSWIM. So that's why you get so many people being RC but actually disagreeing with so much of it.

So now my DC go to CofE school and my friends DCs go to catholic school and I am happy with my decision. I simply felt that I could not support the RC church.

I don't see any bashing- unless discussion and questioning is now defined as bashing.

The confession thing is interesting. In my youth one of the differences between Catholics and protestants was that Protestants could receive a general absolution as part of a service but Catholics had to go to confession and be absolved individually, and not just for mortal sins. And I can't remember what happened to you if you took communion without being absolved- but it was pretty dire! Has that changed too?

Just funny when they break all the rules they obviously don't believe in and then claim it's "trying to change it from the inside". Oh yeah, that will work. Might join the BNP even though I disagree with everything they say, and change it from the inside.

It hasn't changed re confession and communion.

By that I mean I have always taken communion without having gone to confession (as opposed to confessed my sins).

Sorry don't mean to join in the catholic bashing- after years of catholic education I guess I felt qualified to comment!

I have no problem with liberal people of faith. Or any people of faith. But from my understanding catholicism is not a liberal faith. And I don't think you can pick and choose what parts of a religion to agree with.

It's the same reason I disagree with all the people who get their kids christened/baptised when they don't actually go to church.

Just for the record, I've not tried to bash anyone - just think it's an interesting discussion about any organised religion.

I wonder why it bothers you?

The Catholic church has changed its stance on many things over the centuries. One striking example is abortion, which used to be allowed up to 'quickening', i.e. when you could feel the baby move (I didn't feel ds move until about five months). These days, listening to any member of the hierarchy, you'd think the view that abortion = one of THE most evil things any of them can imagine was immutable. But it ain't (immutable or evil IMO but definitely not immutable in the history of the church).

The thing that amazes me is that the church has been exposed as guilty of systematic child abuse, riven with child abuse, with thousands of cases over decades in every inhabited continent. Yet the people who committed these awful crimes, or aided and abetted, or covered up (are still covering up in many cases) claim to be acting in the name of Jesus - a man who said 'suffer the little children to come unto me' and damned anyone who harmed children. I can only assume that many priests don't believe a word they say. And that people who stay in the church, especially parents who send their children to Catholic schools, are suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance.

Bah, sorry, came across as rude again. I meant that it's not been my intention to bash any one of any particular faith. I just think it's interesting to discuss how people think about their individual faith within a religion with specific ideas they might not necessarily agree with.

Madonna - were you asking why it bothers me? It doesn't bother me. It interests me.

I think it's interesting as well.

The OP said it angered her that people who disagree with Church teaching on contraception and same sec marriage identify as Catholics. I think that's an interesting response, and one I would like to see developed.

The Pope is a human being so in my humble opinion he CAN be falliable. I am Catholic and feel able to say when I don't agree with the crusty old Bishops in Rome. There are a lot of wonderful things in the Catholic faith but some things are rotten and I will openly say so.